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Reporting rules infractions

#1 User is offline   longweekend58 

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

So BAM... whats the penalty for the previous poster maliciously misquoting me? In most forums that is a suspension offence.
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#2 User is offline   longweekend58 

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:37 PM

View PostBam, on 05 February 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Given that Abbott is spouting patently false rubbish in multiple places about CO2's transparency and the like preventing it being measured, I seriously doubt that he would be pedantic about the difference between "mass" and "weight" and it's not credible to suggest otherwise. You're trying to defend the indefensible here; Abbott is the village idiot of the Parliament when it comes to scientific accuracy. It is a really absurd argument to assert that he was actually using "weight" correctly in the scientific sense (he wasn't) as if it somehow negates the fact that the rest of his remarks were so preposterously false. Of course, you've not defended these remarks but are going on about the difference between weight and mass as if it absolved Abbott of his other numerous scientific sins. We're not buying it because we know the truth.


You need to review the Forum rules regarding personal attacks. Take the hint.

BAM


I MIGHT take the hint if I saw frogman being banned for his abuse to me. But What I am mainly seeing is that liberal supporters get treated more harshly.

CO2 IS a weightless gas and that is not in dispute. For you to assert that he wasnt using the correct scientific context is also wrong as it IS 'weightless'. measuring CO2 concentration is easy in a small sample. measuring the concentration of ANYTHING in a larger environment is nothing like simple. I run training in contaminant transport modelling and the whole reason we model it is because the assumption you make is invalid.
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#3 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:48 AM

View Postlongweekend58, on 06 February 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

I MIGHT take the hint if I saw frogman being banned for his abuse to me. But What I am mainly seeing is that liberal supporters get treated more harshly.


Ahahah, you muppet, I bet cold hard cash that I get suspended more than anyone else here. The mods have repeatedly stated that they dont like to ban people, and prefer suspensions. But keep on crying about liberal persecution. Its fucking hilarious.
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#4 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

View Postlongweekend58, on 06 February 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

I MIGHT take the hint if I saw frogman being banned for his abuse to me. But What I am mainly seeing is that liberal supporters get treated more harshly.

The onus is on posters to report problems, not on moderators to find them. Do you know how to use the reporting function in the Forum?

BAM
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#5 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

View Postlongweekend58, on 06 February 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

I MIGHT take the hint if I saw frogman being banned for his abuse to me. But What I am mainly seeing is that liberal supporters get treated more harshly.

On another point, suspensions of individual posters is not announced publicly. Just because you don't see other posters' suspensions does not mean that they are not occurring.

BAM
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#6 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:43 PM

View Postlongweekend58, on 06 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

So BAM... whats the penalty for the previous poster maliciously misquoting me? In most forums that is a suspension offence.

As yet there are no firm rules regarding that usage but I have stated that personally I discourage the practice. This specific issue was discussed in the Proposed Manual of Style thread. Here is my posting on the use of QUOTE tags. I have emphasised the relevant section in bold:

View PostBam, on 04 August 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Quotations
The QUOTE tag can be used to insert a quotation. It is inserted automatically into a new post when quoting another poster. Proper usage is subject to guidelines.
  • Only use the quote tag if you are actually quoting something that someone has actually said. Never use the quote tag to include hypothetical speech.
  • Quotes should include a link or other citation to the source of the text being quoted.
  • Text in quotes should not be modified except according to the following rules:
    • When paraphrasing, indicate the paraphrased text by placing it in brackets []: He said something would become [The Minister] said something. Paraphrase only to clarify, never to obfuscate.
    • Delete irrelevant text within a paragraph with an ellipsis (...).
    • Delete whole paragraphs from quoted text by replacing the deleted paragraphs with "(snip)" or by closing one quote block and immediately starting another. This only applies if the deleted text lies between quoted text. Deleted text at the beginning and end of a quotation does not need to be marked in this way.
    • Never delete text if it removes context or changes the meaning. If you are unsure, leave it alone.
    • Any quotation that has been modified in these ways must include a link or other citation to the original quotation to facilitate verification of the quoted material. No exceptions.

  • Do not quote entire articles if that article is copyrighted. Limit the quoted portion of any copyrighted article to ten per cent of the whole article by word count. Always include a link to any quoted article.
  • Do not include a quotation if by doing so you are in breach of the rights of third parties or of any law.


This is intended to prevent the abuses of quote tags such as the one you mentioned.

I know you've read that thread because you've posted there. At the time you disagreed with the idea of a manual of style:

View Postlongweekend58, on 16 September 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Well the biggest problem I see in this proposed Manual of Style is that it will kill the forum itself - as if that needed any more help. Requiring citations for EVERy statistic? style demands? Get real. If you want that kind of think you will end up talking to yourself and no one else. I write non-fiction books and I am fully aware of citations and the Manual of Style. But guess what... first drafts are not so. They are written with content and message as the priority and editing and so on to fine tune it.

Thats not how I wish to write posts. And it is not the way i WILL write posts. You can expect a higher standard than many other forums but if I claim that the ALP is 10 points down on the Coalition in the polls I do not expect to be required to supply a link or citation.

It is a daft idea. The site needs more posters - not more authors.

Seeing as you are now the victim of abuse of quote tags, I think by now you will see the point of having some style rules, and why it's necessary to stipulate proper usage for quote tags.

If you have an issue with content posted by others, the reporting system is there to bring it to the attention of moderators for their consideration. I have explained this to you before.

BAM
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#7 User is offline   longweekend58 

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

View PostBam, on 07 February 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

As yet there are no firm rules regarding that usage but I have stated that personally I discourage the practice. This specific issue was discussed in the Proposed Manual of Style thread. Here is my posting on the use of QUOTE tags. I have emphasised the relevant section in bold:

This is intended to prevent the abuses of quote tags such as the one you mentioned.

I know you've read that thread because you've posted there. At the time you disagreed with the idea of a manual of style:

Seeing as you are now the victim of abuse of quote tags, I think by now you will see the point of having some style rules, and why it's necessary to stipulate proper usage for quote tags.

If you have an issue with content posted by others, the reporting system is there to bring it to the attention of moderators for their consideration. I have explained this to you before.

BAM


irony doesnt translate well... Since you have banned me in the past for abusing people while I see a variety of people doing exactly that without penatly I wondered if deliberately misquoting was a similar unevenly applied policy.
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#8 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:05 PM

View Postlongweekend58, on 09 February 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

irony doesnt translate well... Since you have banned me in the past for abusing people while I see a variety of people doing exactly that without penatly I wondered if deliberately misquoting was a similar unevenly applied policy.

You have never been banned because bans are permanent.

You might see rules infractions and no apparent action because suspensions are not actually made public. Do you have concerns regarding this policy? If so, I suggest that you create a thread in the Technical Support & Feature Requests section of the forum where the users of the forum can discuss this matter in an impartial manner.

I can see where you might feel aggrieved at an apparent lack of action. However, I must emphasise that if there is no report then any alleged infraction will not be likely to receive prompt attention. So I remind you again, please use the reporting system if you see an infraction. It's what it's for.

BAM
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#9 User is offline   longweekend58 

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostBam, on 09 February 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

You have never been banned because bans are permanent.

You might see rules infractions and no apparent action because suspensions are not actually made public. Do you have concerns regarding this policy? If so, I suggest that you create a thread in the Technical Support & Feature Requests section of the forum where the users of the forum can discuss this matter in an impartial manner.

I can see where you might feel aggrieved at an apparent lack of action. However, I must emphasise that if there is no report then any alleged infraction will not be likely to receive prompt attention. So I remind you again, please use the reporting system if you see an infraction. It's what it's for.

BAM


so the 'tattle-tale' approach is the one in action here? I find that a lttle 'primary-school'. When Ive moderated I've acted on what I saw rather than waited for some panty-waist to complain. I honestly dont know why moderators cant act on their own. It is certainly what I would expect in a mature forum. The idea of 'tattling' seems rather childish except for serious offences. All you end up doing is avoiding the 'precious little things' that complain about what you say like a mummy's boy in primary school.
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#10 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 07:11 PM

View Postlongweekend58, on 09 February 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

so the 'tattle-tale' approach is the one in action here? I find that a lttle 'primary-school'. When Ive moderated I've acted on what I saw rather than waited for some panty-waist to complain. I honestly dont know why moderators cant act on their own.

To be honest, your argument is rather silly. The moderators here are volunteers with real lives away from the forum. Moderators don't have the time to read every single post in every single thread in every single forum within 12 to 24 hours of the post and take action quickly.

Moderators on a forum are like a police force. The police don't patrol every possible place where a crime can occur every 24 hours because we would need a much larger police force than is practical given the amount of tax that people are willing to pay. So too is it unreasonable to expect moderators to patrol everywhere, all the time.

We don't rely on members of the police to find crime. That's why we have police stations and the 000 phone number. And that's why the forum has a "report" link beneath every post.

Sometimes the police find crime first and act on it. So too do moderators sometimes find the problem posts first and act. However, in both cases it is more usual for someone else to find the problem first.

If you're not going to take the time to report a problematic post using the proper channels, that's your decision, but by doing so you forfeit the right to have the complaint dealt with if you don't actually use the proper channels to make the complaint. If it's not good enough for you to take 30 seconds and press a few buttons to make the complaint, don't expect the volunteer moderators to waste hours of their own time just to satisfy you. Others use the reporting system. It's about time you did the same.

BAM
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#11 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:13 AM

Bam, your explanation (detailed at some length), is sound.

Bam to LWE said:

I can see where you might feel aggrieved at an apparent lack of action.


But the above quote gives the impression that you are well aware of unreported transgressions. The "police cannot patrol every possible place where a crime can occur" but moderators sometimes find the problem posts first (or second) yet did not act.

Quote

suspensions are not actually made public


Make 'em public. Let posters and mod's alike be accountable for their alleged misdeeds and decisions respectively.

Feel free to move this to a more appropriate thread. I saw a couple of possibilities but was unable to make a choice.
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#12 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:25 AM

View Posticey, on 10 February 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

But the above quote gives the impression that you are well aware of unreported transgressions. The "police cannot patrol every possible place where a crime can occur" but moderators sometimes find the problem posts first (or second) yet did not act.

Sometimes there are minor infractions that would only be acted on if reported. Sometimes too an infraction gets lost in the noise. Once it enters the reporting system, it will be acted upon, even if it is ultimately found that no action was needed. However, misuse of the reporting system is not looked upon favourably.

Quote

Make 'em public. Let posters and mod's alike be accountable for their alleged misdeeds and decisions respectively.

I do not think that making every action public is a good idea. Sometimes posters are simply warned rather than suspended and taking the time to publicise every single warning is not a productive use of time.

There is merit in making suspensions public, but it would also require some safeguards to prevent abuse. It would be sound to have a rule interpretation that making offtopic references to another poster's suspension history would constitute a personal attack and therefore be actionable under the existing rules. We also need to exercise proper jurisprudence, such as by not assuming anyone is guilty of an infraction based on their prior record.

Quote

Feel free to move this to a more appropriate thread. I saw a couple of possibilities but was unable to make a choice.

New thread created.

BAM
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This post has been edited by Bam: 10 February 2013 - 07:46 AM

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