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Religious Child Abuse

#1 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:19 AM

Anyone who does not separate religious institutions like the Roman Catholic Church from those of non-religious institutions in condemning child abuse is simply.....a moron!
Even though legally the crimes cannot be separated and all institutions equally must be investigated (e.g. the law cannot be discriminatory), morally it's a different matter.Religious institutions teach godliness......non-sinning....and wholesale goodness and morality.It is essential therefore that they not only be practising those moral standards of which they teach and preach but to also be seen to do so. Non-religious institutions do not So religious institutions can be considered the most hypocritical and two-faced where consequently the child abuse in it's jurisdiction is much more horrendous. Their teachings therefore have become hollow and we are entitled to expect from them to just disappear....to become non-existant
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#2 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:24 PM

Why are you still picking on the Roman Rite of Catholicism?

Don't the other Rites also have problems in this area?

Do you really believe that those working ln non-religious institutions do not have the same moral responsibility to their charges as do those that work in religious ones?
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#3 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:15 AM

Yes the non-religious organizations have the same moral responsibilities..... but with one difference....they do not preach and teach morality like the religious organizations do. Read my post properly Roderick
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#4 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:16 AM

Yes the non-religious organizations have the same moral responsibilities..... but with one difference....they do not preach and teach morality like the religious organizations do. Read my post properly Roderick
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#5 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:53 PM

View Postdumbcluck, on 20 September 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Yes the non-religious organizations have the same moral responsibilities..... but with one difference....they do not preach and teach morality like the religious organizations do. Read my post properly Roderick


I'm with Roderick. You imply that being non-religious is to be fundamentally amoral and so child abuse is akin to "fair game" for them. Nonsense!
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#6 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:39 PM

You know, I think DC has a point. Even though the crimes are equally reprehensible, there is an added layer of gross hypocrisy and possible culpability of cover up when perpetrated by those who preach against such acts.
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#7 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:44 AM

Thank you Scotto. Anyone with even the semblance of common sense would agree with this proposition. This is the same analogy as when a parent murders their child.How more atrocious is this when those parents are they morally and legally to take care of the child but instead they murder their child. The religious organizations are there to take care morally of their flock but instead within them child abuse is practised
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#8 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:29 AM

The organization preaches against such acts but the organization doesn't perform such acts; I agree that there is an added layer of moral wrong for priests who preach one thing and do another but this is not true of the organization as a whole.

There is also the question of why DC is concentrating on the Roman Rite.
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#9 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:59 PM

It is true however that certain religious organisations, wielding great power, have shielded paedophiles from the law. This seems hypocritical and self-serving in the extreme.
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#10 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:55 PM

View Postscotto, on 24 September 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

It is true however that certain religious organisations, wielding great power, have shielded paedophiles from the law. This seems hypocritical and self-serving in the extreme.

It is, but we must be wary of concentrating, as DC does, on one Rite within one denomination.

One could point to the Anglican Communion and Scouting which both teach doing good, being moral etc.
One could also point to Government organizations that have fallen by the wayside in this matter.
Westminster System Governments are the teachers/framers of the law and are its upholders and enforcers and consequently bear as much moral responsibility as any other organization that teaches a moral code.
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#11 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:58 PM

I'm not wary of that at all.
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#12 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:56 PM

View Postscotto, on 24 September 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

I'm not wary of that at all.

If not, why not?
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#13 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:45 PM

Because its not relevant.
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#14 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:08 AM

View Postscotto, on 24 September 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

Because its not relevant.

It is relevant that there seems to be a fixation on the Roman Rite in DC's posts, it rather skews his argument and tends to make one think that his thinking on the subject is biased.
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#15 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:43 AM

I think really he said "... institutions like the Roman Catholic Church..." - using them as an exemplar of a class rather than the sole instance. So no problem.
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#16 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:44 AM

View Postscotto, on 25 September 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

I think really he said "... institutions like the Roman Catholic Church..." - using them as an exemplar of a class rather than the sole instance. So no problem.

Fair enough, but as an example of moral thinking the Church is not comparable to lay organizations or Government in this matter as the Church is also morally bound to practice forgiveness and to give the transgressor a chance at a new and more moral life.
Lay organizations and Governments are not so bound and however much misplaced such forgiveness has been in some instances, of itself, forgiveness is no bad thing.
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#17 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:43 PM

Trickery and self-deception disguised as forgiveness have proven to be criminal acts.

I have never, one single time, seen forgiveness of a murderer used as an excuse not to have him go before the courts.
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#18 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:16 PM

View Postscotto, on 25 September 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Trickery and self-deception disguised as forgiveness have proven to be criminal acts.

I have never, one single time, seen forgiveness of a murderer used as an excuse not to have him go before the courts.

How would you know?

The "Seal of the Confessional" and all that.
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#19 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:41 PM

We found out about all the sex criminals being protected..... I think we would have found out about the murderers.
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#20 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:23 AM

View Postscotto, on 25 September 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

We found out about all the sex criminals being protected..... I think we would have found out about the murderers.

We didn't find out about the sex criminals via the Confessional, we found out from the victims; victims of murder are somewhat different.
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