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Our non-working gun laws

#1 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 09:19 PM

="http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=17534&page=22"

From a discussion at OnLineOpinion

Quote

There have been many claims that the Gun Laws have stopped any mass shootings in Australia and that therefore they are a success.

The Lyndt Cafe and Monis proved that they are a failure.
All the ingredients were there for a massacre.

Monis had a firearm - the laws didn't stop him from acquiring it.

Monis' firearm was prohibited by the gun laws - he still got it.
his firearm was illegally modified - the gun laws didn't stop the modification.

Monis didn't have a firearms licence - he didn't comply with the gun laws.

Monis took hostages - the gun laws didn't stop him.

Monis murdered one person - the gun laws didn't stop him.

Monis had it in his power to murder many more people - the gun laws didn't stop him, he was stopped by men with guns.

Anyone care to refute the above?
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 8 August 2015 11:10:12 AM


Even Barack Obama has got in on the act and is praising Australia's failed gun laws.
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#2 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 07:33 PM

Sure. He only killed one person. He was killed by police, not some idiot with hero fantasies walking around with a gun under his jacket. And these things rarely happen.
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#3 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 08:04 AM

He did indeed only kill one person, but it was a massacre in the making and the gun laws did zilch to stop it.
had "some idiot" that was licenced to carry a concealed pistol and was trained in its use been in the cafe there is every likely hood that only Monis would have been shot; one dead instead of three.

On the death by police fire nothing should be said until the Coroner has his say.
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#4 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 12:02 PM

Same old same old, eh? One massacre, if it ever occurs, will NOT invalidate the gun laws.

Yes, every person that carries a gun is Dirty Harry...... Not.
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#5 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 01:17 PM

But the gun laws are cited as the reason that there have not been any more firearm massacres in Australia, in line with that thinking then even one massacre or as in the Monis affair, one foiled massacre, shews that the contention is invalid.

How many massacres do we need to prove that the gun laws have failed?

The gun laws are not about making Australia safer, another of their failures, but about control; that's one of the reasons that those prime control freaks, the Greens, are so keen on ever tougher gun laws.
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#6 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 03:45 PM

Yes, they are cited this way, in my opinion correctly. Nothing in that suggests that they will work perfectly forever without exception.

When we have one massacre [which hasn't happened yet, did you know?], we can talk about it.

Not sure what you mean by failure, as they have succeeded brilliantly so far.
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#7 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 09:20 PM

View Postscotto, on 12 August 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

Yes, they are cited this way, in my opinion correctly. Nothing in that suggests that they will work perfectly forever without exception.

When we have one massacre [which hasn't happened yet, did you know?], we can talk about it.

Not sure what you mean by failure, as they have succeeded brilliantly so far.


We didn't have a massacre because the police nipped it in the bud, but as my original post points out the gun laws did nothing; for all the effect that they had on this potential massacre they might well not have existed.
The laws are supposed to stop massacres so why didn't they stop Monis before people were killed?
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#8 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 06:33 AM

I think the gun laws stopped any other situations liked this arising. And you keep using the classic straw man argument of expecting perfection. It's a silly expectation.
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#9 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 10:12 AM

View Postscotto, on 13 August 2015 - 06:33 AM, said:

I think the gun laws stopped any other situations liked this arising. And you keep using the classic straw man argument of expecting perfection. It's a silly expectation.


I'm not expecting perfection, exactly the opposite, because from day one it was obvious that they could not work.

Why do you think that they stopped any other situations arising, any references?
As far as we know this is the first situation that has arisen, and they failed on all counts.
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#10 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 09:30 PM

Any references to massacres that did occur? No? Enough said.
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#11 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 11:46 AM

View Postscotto, on 13 August 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

Any references to massacres that did occur? No? Enough said.


The Lyndt Cafe was a potential massacre and it was stopped by men with guns.

I'll ask again how many massacres, or foiled massacres, have to occur before the gun laws are seen as a failure?

Some of the provisions of the gun laws are incredibly stupid and one can only think that they were intended to be obstructive.
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#12 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 07:32 AM

yes... men in uniform with authorised guns. You seem to forget that bit.

Any news of actual massacres? Any? No?

We'll leave it there.
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#13 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 12:09 PM

So they were wearing uniforms, so what? still men with guns.
They apparently weren't very efficient or perhaps well trained but they did get the job done; which the much vaunted gun laws failed to do.
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#14 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 06:01 AM

They had guns as part of our current gun laws. This may surprise you.
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#15 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 11:39 AM

View Postscotto, on 17 August 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

They had guns as part of our current gun laws. This may surprise you.


Doesn't surprise me one bit, they also had guns under our previous gun laws and even when there were no gun laws to speak of.
Our police have been armed for well over a century, they are not however allowed weapons for their own protection, which is another of the ridiculous aspects of the current gun laws.
They may protect their lives, if necessary with their service pistols (whatever) but they are not allowed to carry them for the purpose of self protection.
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#16 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:33 PM

hmm. talking circles there Rodders.
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#17 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 11:04 AM

View Postscotto, on 18 August 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

hmm. talking circles there Rodders.


Well, that's the law; no person may possess anything for the purpose of self defence, even policemen.

Stupid ain't it!
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#18 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 03:15 PM

but it works. there you go.
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#19 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 03:45 PM

View Postscotto, on 19 August 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

but it works. there you go.


Does it?

Tell that to the families of off duty policemen who have been murdered and weren't allowed to have a pistol when off duty.
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#20 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:29 PM

massacres?
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