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Our non-working gun laws

#41 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 06:12 PM

Any massacres?
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#42 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 08:20 PM

View Postscotto, on 02 September 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Any massacres?


Not yet (apart from the averted one in Martin Place), but their activities may bring one on.
Would you say that Sydney's continuing gun violence is a sign that the laws are working?
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#43 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 06:53 AM

No massacres. So you would have to say they are working. Very few, if any, impulsive suicides with a gun. So you would have to say they are working. No one shot by their kids accidentally. Ditto. No one taking potshots in peak hour traffic. Same. So yes, they are working. Criminals being.... criminal... no surprise there.
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#44 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 01:27 PM

View Postscotto, on 03 September 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

No massacres. So you would have to say they are working. Very few, if any, impulsive suicides with a gun. So you would have to say they are working. No one shot by their kids accidentally. Ditto. No one taking potshots in peak hour traffic. Same. So yes, they are working. Criminals being.... criminal... no surprise there.


But aren't the Gun Laws supposed to stop criminals getting firearms?
Would not stopping criminals getting guns make Australia a safer place?

It would seem that your "Criminals being.... criminal... no surprise there."
is an admission that the laws don't work.

The decline in gun suicides is more to do with the superb effort that has been put into mental health and suicide prevention rather than the gun laws and to attribute the success in suicide prevention to one set of laws is to denigrate all those who do such dedicated work in suicide prevention.
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#45 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:25 PM

Terrible how you keep expecting perfection, knowing it will never happen, and then get all worked up about it.

You're badly misinformed about both the rate of suicide and the amount of effort put into prevention. I work in this area, and I don't think I was insulting myself.
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#46 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 08:09 AM

I don't expect perfection but a noticeable drop in shootings around Sydney would be nice, it might shew that the laws are working.

From the latest ABS information it would seem that suicides in Australia lastly peaked in 1997, one year after the gun grab, so what effect did the gun laws have there?

Suicide has been falling ever since and this is not because of the gun laws, hanging was always the most popular method anyway.

There are now more guns in civilian hands than before the 1996 Buyback as imports since then outnumber the guns that were handed in and are much newer and more efficient in terms of range, power and accuracy.
It would seem though that gun owners are much less inclined to suicide than non-owners; perhaps the shooter is a more stable member of society.
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#47 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 09:52 AM

Suicide stats are notoriously unreliable for a number of reasons, under reporting, unclear inquest findings, and careful planning to look like accidents being the most obvious.

There is a lower probability of impulsive suicides with firearms now that many have been taken out of circulation.

The idea that gun owners are less vulnerable to depression and ensuing suicide is totally unsupported by any research.
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#48 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 06:06 PM

"The idea that gun owners are less vulnerable to depression and ensuing suicide is totally unsupported by any research."

Quite so , but as the availability of firearms within that group is 100%, how do you account for the drop in firearm related suicides, particularly bearing in mind that there are now more guns in Australia before the buy-back?

It would seem, on the surface, that owners of firearms are less likely to take their own lives than are non-owners
Certain it is though that licenced gun owners are less likely to commit crimes of violence than non-owners.
Maybe being an officially trusted member of society has something to do with it.
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#49 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 07 September 2015 - 10:39 AM

You'd have to supply some stats regarding firearm-related suicides first. More guns, but in fewer hands? Stats please.
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#50 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 06:15 PM

Illustration of stupid gun law:

Quote

Is it not a little unreasonable that a farmer can take his rifle and go hunting for a dangerous scrub bull and fix a fence or two whilst hunting but if he takes the rifle with him, with the intention of defending himself if the scrub bull should attack him whilst he is fixing a fence, then he is guilty of an offence because no one is allowed to have a firearm for the purpose of self defence?
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