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Our non-working gun laws

#21 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:48 AM

View Postscotto, on 20 August 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

massacres?


What's that observation got to do with off duty, and therefore not trusted to be armed, policemen being murdered?

Bottom of your barrel?
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#22 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 03:29 PM

I think you might have changed your argument totally here. Police are just people when they're off duty, after all.
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#23 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 09:36 AM

View Postscotto, on 21 August 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

I think you might have changed your argument totally here. Police are just people when they're off duty, after all.


They aren't; they are expected to respond to an emergency, especially one involving fellow officers.
It was law in NSW that any citizen was required to assist police in an emergency but that law was rescinded but it still applies to police, so they are legally different.
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#24 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 03:58 PM

but no reflection of guns and self-defence in what you say there.

I think you've totally changed the subject in a losing argument.
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#25 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:27 AM

Quote

Three Americans who eschewed the title of heroes even after preventing what would have likely been a massacre aboard a Paris-bound train Friday were awarded France’s highest honor Monday [Legion of Honour]


Even in Australia this incident is being treated as a thawted massacre.
My link

However, from the TV footage and media reports, had this happened in Australia those that are being treated as heroes in France would be facing charges of using excessive force, maybe with the addition of 'causing bodily harm'.
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#26 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 12:25 PM

That's total crap.
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#27 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:11 PM

View Postscotto, on 27 August 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

That's total crap.

Very succinct and intelligent reply and well up to standard when in a corner.

Th French have gun laws too, very strict re. military weapons, seems as if their gun laws don't work either.
How many massacres or attempted massacres before gun laws are seen not to work?
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#28 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 04:42 PM

Rodders, I say that on the basis that you supply no support for your assertion whatsoever. I think it is total crap.

Prove that there has been any legal or political opinion the effect of your assertion about "in Australia.. would be facing charges of excessive force." That's a fantasy on your part and is, as I say, total crap.

By the way - see how well the US guns laws have been working lately?
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#29 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:42 PM

No comment on the French gun laws and their preventing massacres?
If our gun laws prevent massacres why do not the French ones?

Here's a quote from Australian Hunting Forum

"These blokes that got the Legion of Honour for their bravery would have fared differently in Australia, particularly NSW, they'd now be facing charges of using excessive force resulting in bodily harm.
We know how to look after our criminals."

Reply: "Unfortunately, you're absolutely right. Once they'd overpowered him, the fact that they continued to beat him until he was unconscious would see the good guys dragged into court facing charges if it was here in NSW."

What happens to those who in righteous anger go to far is common knowledge in NSW and needs no particular referencing.
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#30 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:33 PM

Tell me what the French gun laws are and then we can talk.

Is that an opinion from an online forum? Hardly a legal opinion, is it? In fact, I think that the reply stating that some "go too far" says it all, regardless of the completely speculative nature of the original post. "TOO far" - see what I mean?

By the way, there has been no coverage of that incident in France even vaguely alluding to the the issue of excessive force.
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#31 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 06:23 PM

"By the way, there has been no coverage of that incident in France even vaguely alluding to the the issue of excessive force."

That's because the French aren't stupid and don't coddle their crims.
Google is full of legal opinions on the use of excessive force.

Google has a bit on French gun laws as wll, certainly enough for discussion.
My link
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#32 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 09:13 AM

This bloke in South Aust. is lucky that he didn't have two toy guns, otherwise the police might have charged him with being an illegal arms dealer.

Quote

A YOUNG man has been acquitted of a firearms offence after police charged him for having a childhood toy cap-gun at his home.

Jake Riley Grosser was arrested and charged with possessing a firearm without a licence after police searched his Murray Bridge home in December 2013.

Police laid the charge after finding a toy cap-gun inside a box of items including pocket knives and a single shotgun round. Mr Grosser, 24, pleaded not guilty and elected to have the case heard by District Court judge Rosemary Davey


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#33 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 30 August 2015 - 07:59 PM

Still, nothing to do with the French thing, is it? Another change of subject.
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#34 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 08:23 AM

View Postscotto, on 30 August 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

Still, nothing to do with the French thing, is it? Another change of subject.


No, but it is illustrative of the stupidity of parts of our gun laws.

Way back, in NSW, criminals started using cheap look alike toy pistols in hold ups etc.
The police and the NSW Govt. acted with commendable speed and stopped the sale of these dangerous items which were as deadly as a stick, so the crims went back to using real guns. Problem solved.
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#35 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 06:33 PM

So, nothing to do with the French incident.

Not illustrating much at all, when you get down to it. Most violent crime, including armed robbery, has been declining in incidence in NSW for more than a decade. There is no problem.
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#36 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 07:58 AM

View Postscotto, on 31 August 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

So, nothing to do with the French incident.

Not illustrating much at all, when you get down to it. Most violent crime, including armed robbery, has been declining in incidence in NSW for more than a decade. There is no problem.


I gave a link to the French gun laws, which don't work either, they are however better in some respects than our own i.e. they don't have stupid rules about antique firearms such as ours where if one owns a musket from the First Fleet then no licence is required but if one wants to fire it with a blank charge, on Australia Day, then that is OK, provided that permission is sought and a fee paid.
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#37 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 10:49 AM

Not really on the point at all, Rodders.
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#38 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 02:21 PM

View Postscotto, on 01 September 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

Not really on the point at all, Rodders.


The point is that silly rules and regulations help to stop laws from working, they bring laws into disrepute.

The restrictions on ammunition are a case in point, these are based on calibre and the relatively small .38 is the largest size allowed to be used for competition.
Apparently the lawmakers did think that size matters, but the accurate .455 Webley is banned and the far more powerful .357 Magnum is allowed.

The hottest load for the .455 produces 767ft/sec muzzle velocity and 337 ft/lbs of energy whereas the .357 has a velocity of 1,700 ft/sec and 802 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, so the allowed round in all respects is over twice as powerful as the banned round.

One presumes that this legislation was enacted to make Australia a safer place, or was the reason just more bastardry?
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#39 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:19 PM

hmm. Australia IS more safe.
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#40 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 09:31 AM

View Postscotto, on 01 September 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

hmm. Australia IS more safe.


Not around the Lakemba, Punchbowl, Bankstown area where the illegal handgun shooters use high velocity, high powered pistols which for some strange reason are not registered nor their owners licenced according to law.
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