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Carbon tax and renewable energy

#1 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 09:46 AM

It is getting to be difficult to maintain forum discipline when threads all over the forum keep getting hijacked with posts about the carbon tax, climate change and the like. If you want to discuss such matters, do it here. At present there are several threads all discussing this topic and it is better if these threads were all kept together. These are interesting topics and merit their own discussion.

Bam
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#2 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 09:37 PM

I guess the contributors would be aware of my opinion on this issue. It looks like it's really going to cruel the present Federal government as it's support collapsed due to this issue. It's really funny however, the so-called alternative government is only saying that it will not implement this tax and is not offering an alternative plan in lieu of it re: climate change. So with it's election we can then expect no action on this issue? This is the question
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#3 User is offline   Marat 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:19 AM

Abbott is offering nothing in the way of real action.How could he after harping about GREAT BIG TAXES. He doesn't really believe in climate change in any case.Another case of populism,the Australian disease.
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#4 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:09 PM

View PostMarat, on 20 June 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

Abbott is offering nothing in the way of real action.How could he after harping about GREAT BIG TAXES. He doesn't really believe in climate change in any case.Another case of populism,the Australian disease.


You may not have actually said it Marat, but I can almost hear your beating heart, calling, nay, yearning passionately for a great big new tax.

Meanwhile, popular (or populist if you prefer) Tony Abbott calls for a plebiscite on the carbon dioxide tax despite every indication being that Gillard believed that she was "very secure" in her position.

Bob Brown being a keen supporter of plebiscites likes to take debate off the shelf and says "a simple yes or no answer is all that is required".

Posted Image

Queue Carbon Kate for a reprise performance of “just say Yes to a carbon tax”.
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#5 User is offline   Neil 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:14 PM

Tony wants a plebiscite but a yes vote will be rejected.
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#6 User is offline   Marat 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:23 PM

View Posticey, on 20 June 2011 - 12:09 PM, said:

You may not have actually said it Marat, but I can almost hear your beating heart, calling, nay, yearning passionately for a great big new tax.

Meanwhile, popular (or populist if you prefer) Tony Abbott calls for a plebiscite on the carbon dioxide tax despite every indication being that Gillard believed that she was "very secure" in her position.

Bob Brown being a keen supporter of plebiscites likes to take debate off the shelf and says "a simple yes or no answer is all that is required".

Posted Image

Queue Carbon Kate for a reprise performance of “just say Yes to a carbon tax”.
I do think taxes are an important part of civilisation,but my point is that Australian politics is bedevilled by populism. Both major parties are to blame.
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#7 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:38 PM

View PostNeil, on 20 June 2011 - 03:14 PM, said:

Tony wants a plebiscite but a yes vote will be rejected.


Tony wants a plebiscite but a yes vote will be rejected.
Tony's hypothetical impotent rejection would be without mandate, but fair game for an oppositon leader.
Julia had an election and the people gave her a mandate for no carbon dioxide tax.
Julia does not want a plebiscite, but wants us to "just say yes".


Bob does not want an election.
The three amigoes do not want an election.
Julia does not want an election, under pain of death.


Posted Image

The people want an election, but not a carbon dioxide tax.
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#8 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:40 PM

View PostMarat, on 20 June 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

I do think taxes are an important part of civilisation,but my point is that Australian politics is bedevilled by populism. Both major parties are to blame.


Whilst I take your point and can't help but agree, I firmly believe current Labor to be poll driven, and only poll driven.

And if calling an election was respecting populism, then bring it on!
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#9 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:22 PM

A plebiscite on a tax? That's like racing in the Olympic Games marathon with a rocket backpack...you will win for sure! Of course Tony Abbott is not offering anything as an alternative. I am not a great believer in referendums/plebiscites unless they are of the Constitutional nature or by way of citizens' petition with at least 20% of the eligible voters' signatures . Apart from that they sound as though they are purely politically motivated. If we start to have plebiscites on every proposal an elected government reveals we may as well have no one governing and just hold "decision droppers" for voters approval at every proposal. Even Howard had never held a plebiscite on the introduction of the Goods & Services Tax.Alright it may have been part of an electoral programme but this is vastly different than having it singularly decided upon by voters.It's gonna be a complete farce as all these are.
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#10 User is offline   Senexx 

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 07:12 PM

Do we need to go over the fact its not a tax again in this thread or can we all agree its a fixed price on carbon that acts like a tax until the ETS kicks in?

Would anyone here that is not real accepting of pricing carbon be more amenable to it if the tax free threshold was lifted to $25000?
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This post has been edited by Senexx: 02 July 2011 - 01:36 PM

Support the Independents, Democracy always needs and requires a balance of power.

Counter Insurgent,

Deficit Terrorist Unit

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#11 User is offline   Neil 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:40 AM

Plebiscite dead after Senator Fielding rejected it as a nonbinding opinion poll
When Fielding thinks it is a stupid stunt then it is really bad
A fact surprisingly not recognised by News Ltd
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#12 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 10:20 AM

I wonder why a referendum was not touted. Is it because it's not a constitutional change and thereby not an appropriate tool for the job?

Of course, Abbott always indicated that his preferred solution was firstly no carbon dioxide tax this term (as promised by all the major parties last election), or failing that, an early election for Gillard to try to get a mandate. Neither of these options were likely to change a sow's ear into a purse, so Gillard bravely plods on at her peril, with neither a perceived nor an actual mandate.

Quote

Labor senator Doug Cameron said the "stunt" showed the coalition lacked policy and vision. "What takes you to The Lodge is good policy and the trust of the Australian people," he said.


If I were Gillard, I'd be more concerned about what takes you out of the lodge.
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#13 User is offline   Marat 

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:10 AM

View Posticey, on 21 June 2011 - 10:20 AM, said:

I wonder why a referendum was not touted. Is it because it's not a constitutional change and thereby not an appropriate tool for the job?

Of course, Abbott always indicated that his preferred solution was firstly no carbon dioxide tax this term (as promised by all the major parties last election), or failing that, an early election for Gillard to try to get a mandate. Neither of these options were likely to change a sow's ear into a purse, so Gillard bravely plods on at her peril, with neither a perceived nor an actual mandate.



If I were Gillard, I'd be more concerned about what takes you out of the lodge.

I wouldn't disagree.
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#14 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:09 AM

I have to agree that the way Gillard has gone about her business has been totally muddle-headed and could see her out of a job in a year or so. Also their advisors on issues like promotion of campains and publicity are completely whacked out. It's bizarre to watch.
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#15 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:08 PM

Well call it what you will...tax...price on carbon whatever. However I betcha that if an election or a plebiscite is held the Liberals will incessantly hammer it as a "carbon tax[u][/u]"....and nothing else. In any electorate in any democratic country including Australia there is only a small percentage who are not naive to the extent that they will not be manipulated as their politicians want them to be.The rest which are the majority are manipulated without difficulty. The political (party) side which succeeds in manipulating the majority over it's opposite political party wins.
This is what politics and elections are all about......pure and simple
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#16 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:14 PM

hmmm.. but the plebescite was never going to happen, just another dirty little stunt.
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#17 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:12 PM

View Postscotto, on 24 June 2011 - 01:14 PM, said:

hmmm.. but the plebescite was never going to happen, just another dirty little stunt.


I promise to look the other way if the ranga pulls another dirty little stunt by calling an election.
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#18 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 09:36 PM

Actually, contrary to popular belief, the Liberals do have a policy for carbon emissions. They plan to hand over taxpayers' funds to polluting companies in an apparent attempt to help them to reduce their emissions. This is called "direct action". It's such a stinker of a policy that Turnbull has blasted it and the party at large hardly dare discuss it, lest the scrutiny of comparison makes people realise just what a dog of a policy it really is.

If this policy is implemented, you can bet your beachfront house that the Liberal party will be very slack on corporate oversight and regulation, as usual. "Here you go, here's your truck full of taxpayers' money, because you said that you reduced your emissions." (Nod, wink.)

Here is the policy comparison:
ALP's Carbon tax - make polluters pay for tax cuts to taxpayers.
LNP's Direct Action - make taxpayers pay for an expansion of corporate welfare to polluting companies.

Which would you prefer?
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#19 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 09:38 AM

View Posticey, on 24 June 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

I promise to look the other way if the ranga pulls another dirty little stunt by calling an election.

"the ranga"..... good one Icey!!
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#20 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 06:59 PM

I see that there is a topic "Carbon Tax..The Facts". Facts are supposed to prove an argument conclusively. However in this issue there are many "facts" which support each position.These multitudes of "facts" are contained in the scientific conclusions which are for and against the climate change issue ( an issue directly connected to this one).Then you have the political "facts" which can be dug up by both the Labor and Liberal camps to support their positions. So actually this title is a fallacy. No conclusive evidence exists to support either position. Therefore no conclusive evidence exists to either impose a carbon tax....or not to impose it. In short we have a Mexican standoff on climate change. But I am of the view that no harm will be done (as no harm was done when governments legislated against pollution back in the 70's and 80's) by this tax
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