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Carbon tax and renewable energy

#501 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:02 PM

View PostTrogdor, on 02 January 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

You've confused hosting with home ISP. Hence my claim was neither without evidence or refuted. And unless you're hosting this page on some ISP-provided personal web space, you can get unlimited bandwidth for a hosted site for very little $.

Hell, some people will give you that and 24x7 on call support for $20 per month


Quite so Trogdor.

View Posticey, on 01 January 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

I believe you've used relatively worst case domestic broadband excess data charges rather than those that apply for web hosting at an enterprise level. Or even the downmarket plans offering web hosting with unlimited monthly data bandwidth available for $4.99/month.


I give you the (untouched by a carbon tax) five buck deal:

Economy Posted Image A$4.99 /month
  • 10 GB Space
  • Unlimited Bandwidth
  • 100 Email Accounts2
  • 10 MySQL Databases (1 GB ea.)

Go Dad!
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#502 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:14 AM

View PostTrogdor, on 02 January 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

You've confused hosting with home ISP. Hence my claim was neither without evidence or refuted.

Rubbish, Trog!!

View PostTrogdor, on 01 January 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Bandwidth is cheap

Read it again, Trog, with the important word highlighted:

View PostTrogdor, on 01 January 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Bandwidth is cheap

Where does that say hosting? You clearly said BANDWIDTH. You said NOTHING about HOSTING. I was talking about BANDWIDTH because you made a claim about BANDWIDTH. I did not refute your claims about HOSTING because you didn't make any!!!

Why are you even participating in a discussion on Internet technology if you can't tell the difference between bandwidth and hosting?
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#503 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:20 AM

View Posticey, on 02 January 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Quite so Trogdor.

Not so, icey. Like Trog, you can't tell the difference between bandwidth and hosting either. For the record, I happen to pay $5/month for hosting. However, it does not allow me to connect to the Internet, which Trog alluded to with his unproven "bandwidth is cheap" assertion.

Do you think you can connect to the Internet and use up bandwidth with just a hosting plan? Good luck with that, try it and let me know how it goes.
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This post has been edited by Bam: 03 January 2012 - 07:23 AM
Reason for edit: clarify

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#504 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 07:41 AM

View Posticey, on 02 January 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

My error rather than pretence. In fact, I took it (and responded as if) you were claiming $515 was for electricity (electricity costs being the topic you'd introduced as I recall).

I acknowledge your hyperbowl was less humungous than I'd originally thought. :rolleyes:

Thank you for your acknowledgement. In my earlier post I did not clearly state that the given figure was not just the effect on electricity prices because I expected you to read the cited reference to discover the details for yourself.

Quote

On trustworthiness of modelling, clearly it's best to trust the salesman's figures over his opposition.

A fair point that you are alluding to here. However, figures that model the whole of a package are more likely to be reliable than figures that only focus on parts of the package and leave out the rest. The Treasury modelling uses the whole package. The state Liberal parties' modelling leaves out the effect of the tax cuts. The Treasury modelling looks at the whole economy. The state Liberal parties' modelling has a narrower focus and leaves out, say, the effect of the tax in the other states. Assuming that what I say about the focus of the state Liberal parties' modelling is correct, then clearly it is not valid to apply the narrow focus of these models on the rest of the economy when the rest of the economy was not included in the model in the first place.

I would also trust the treasury modelling more than unsubstantiated and unreferenced speculation from any source, particularly the anti-carbon-tax howler monkeys.
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#505 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:53 AM

View PostBam, on 03 January 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

Read it again, Trog, with the important word highlighted:

Bam in clarifying the obvious said:

Bandwidth is cheap


Where does that say hosting? You clearly said BANDWIDTH. You said NOTHING about HOSTING. I was talking about BANDWIDTH because you made a claim about BANDWIDTH. I did not refute your claims about HOSTING because you didn't make any!!!

Why are you even participating in a discussion on Internet technology if you can't tell the difference between bandwidth and hosting?


Ouch! My ears are ringing and perhaps we need to sojourn to the more refined Forum Rules & Info section. Your call naturally.

You appear to be confused about my confusion or lack therof and have possibly forgotten why it is that such matters were even being discussed on this most popular carbonated thread. Crikeys! I might have too, but I think there was some concern about your edict that we musn't link images from another site, for example, news.com or other "direct links to website media that bypass the main pages of the hosting website".

In that context, my broadband plan has no relevance as (I think) your fear was for the financial well being of the image host.

Were you concerned about the host Bam? Or was it about data charges to Dailywire members downloading the 43K black and white line drawing I'd linked from deep inside www.supercoloring.com ??
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#506 User is offline   Trogdor 

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 10:08 AM

View PostBam, on 03 January 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

Rubbish, Trog!!


Read it again, Trog, with the important word highlighted:


Where does that say hosting? You clearly said BANDWIDTH. You said NOTHING about HOSTING. I was talking about BANDWIDTH because you made a claim about BANDWIDTH. I did not refute your claims about HOSTING because you didn't make any!!!


Becaue YOU were talking about image linking, which affects hosting bandwidth, not your ISP-provided internet, which will take and cache the image regardless of where it comes from. Is that clear enough?

Here's your original quote

Bam said:

"Just because an image exists on a website on the Internet does not mean that it is acceptable to link to that image in such a way that the bandwidth of that site is being stolen to display it.


Hosted. Bandwidth. Nothing to do with your ISP.
Now you're simply trying to back out.

View PostBam, on 03 January 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

Why are you even participating in a discussion on Internet technology if you can't tell the difference between bandwidth and hosting?


Oh dear. Here, I'll even google link it for you so that you can understand that hosting uses bandwidth., and that many providers offer hosting with unlimited bandwidth, hence my claim.

How else do you think all the little ones and zeros get there?
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#507 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:09 AM

View PostTrogdor, on 03 January 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Becaue YOU were talking about image linking, which affects hosting bandwidth

You should have said specifically "hosting bandwidth" throughout and not simply "bandwidth" which has a broader meaning. Had you done so, with references (something important that you neglected) then your argument would have been quite reasonable (especially if references were provided as icey later did) and I'm sure I would have given it consideration on its merits. But you said "bandwidth" without qualification, and this sloppy use of terminology caused confusion. Again, when discussing technology, be very sure that you get your terminology correct because incorrect usage of terminology causes confusion. In future could you please take the time to be more precise in your terminology?

I apologise to you, Trog and to icey for this confusion.

However, there is another more practical reason why people should not deep link image content. It's simply this - the content on other websites could be moved or deleted at any time, and when this happens the link no longer works. This happened to quite a few of the cartoons in the "Political cartoons" thread on the old ozforums site before it closed, and it will happen here too. Hosting bandwidth may be cheap, but hosting space is relatively expensive because it requires physical media. Old images and media are often the first things to go when the webmaster feels the need to free up space for new content. Thus, a linked image can disappear at any time.
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#508 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 09:12 AM

Replied in Forum Rules & Info here.
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#509 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:16 PM

Hey, did anyone catch this? China now will have a carbon trading scheme.

Interesting.
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#510 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:46 AM

View Postscotto, on 05 January 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Hey, did anyone catch this? China now will have a carbon trading scheme.

Interesting.


Nice to see you are now reading outside of the ABC's insulated world.

Yes, the article was interesting as was the final and telling sentence of the article.

Quote

China has pledged to reduce the amount of carbon dioxide produced per unit of gross domestic product by 40 to 45 per cent by the end of 2020 - essentially a pledge to slow emissions growth, but not a cut.
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#511 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:52 AM

And speaking of your ABC......

DailyClimate.org said:

Climate change dropped even further from the world's headlines and newscasts last year.


But wait, there's more.


DailyClimate.org also said:

Australia's coverage jumps

There were some exceptions to the downward trends in media coverage.

In Australia, debate over a carbon tax generated kept the issue in the news throughout the summer.

The Australia Broadcasting Corp. published 60 percent more climate stories in 2011 than it did in 2010, while the Sydney Morning Herald saw a 21 percent jump.
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#512 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:21 AM

Quote

Australia's coverage jumps

There were some exceptions to the downward trends in media coverage.

In Australia, debate over a carbon tax generated kept the issue in the news throughout the summer.

The Australia Broadcasting Corp. published 60 percent more climate stories in 2011 than it did in 2010, while the Sydney Morning Herald saw a 21 percent jump.

Where else do you have an Opposition leader appearing daily in a fluoro vest and hard-hat saying the sky is falling, and a lazy media that thinks this represents news?
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#513 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:50 PM

View Posticey, on 06 January 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Nice to see you are now reading outside of the ABC's insulated world.

Yes, the article was interesting as was the final and telling sentence of the article.

I had thought it was cynical to suggest that you would make a reference to reading outside the ABC in your reply... I was wrong. The final sentence doesn't say they won't have a carbons trading scheme, you'll notice.
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#514 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:55 PM

View PostHDMC, on 06 January 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Where else do you have an Opposition leader appearing daily in a fluoro vest and hard-hat saying the sky is falling, and a lazy media that thinks this represents news?


Your point has some validity, but we are all equally accustomed to a fluro-vested redhead. Haven't seen her doing fish though (yet).
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#515 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:57 PM

View Posticey, on 06 January 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Your point has some validity, but we are all equally accustomed to a fluro-vested redhead. Haven't seen her doing fish though (yet).

To be fair both leaders have a pretty good line in gibberish.
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#516 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:59 PM

View Postscotto, on 06 January 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

I had thought it was cynical to suggest that you would make a reference to reading outside the ABC in your reply... I was wrong. The final sentence doesn't say they won't have a carbons trading scheme, you'll notice.


At least Australia's hair brained tilt at carbon blackened windmills makes a claim to reduce Australia's piddly output by some percentage (albeit it a rubbery one). Booming China is not in the running to cut theirs (and knows better not to try), but will want to appease some global Gaia devotees by providing a token sacrifice at the heathen altar.
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#517 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 07:54 PM

View Posticey, on 06 January 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

At least Australia's hair brained tilt at carbon blackened windmills makes a claim to reduce Australia's piddly output by some percentage (albeit it a rubbery one). Booming China is not in the running to cut theirs (and knows better not to try), but will want to appease some global Gaia devotees by providing a token sacrifice at the heathen altar.

Hmmm. You really thnk that the Chinese government gives a rat's arse about anything except power and development? no.

And equally obviously, once the trading scheme starts, if it proceeds as it's supposed to, it may well end up decreasing emissions. The Chinese are just playing their usual game of pretending not to notice anyone else.
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#518 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:38 PM

View Postscotto, on 06 January 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Hmmm. You really thnk that the Chinese government gives a rat's arse about anything except power and development? no.


So your position is my position, but ratcheted up. I can work with that.
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#519 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:11 AM

And now for a slight incongruous change of topic:
CO2 shortage may flatten soft drink supplies

Quote

The temporary closure of two key sources of carbon dioxide gas, including Orica's controversial explosives plant near Newcastle, is causing supply shortages of the essential ingredient that makes soft drinks bubble.
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#520 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:52 AM

View PostBam, on 07 January 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

And now for a slight incongruous change of topic:
CO2 shortage may flatten soft drink supplies



And from the ABC at that. A shortage of Coke ?

Auntie Nanny and the IPCC will be pleased!

On a more sober note, beer drinkers, be afraid. Be very afraid!
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