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Legalising same-sex marriage in Australia?

#21 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:08 PM

View Posticey, on 09 July 2011 - 02:59 AM, said:

I do not know how many countries have legalised same sex marriage Bam, nor whether this happened this century, or the one before last. My guess is extremely few, and only very recently. Please fill me in.



Prior post corrected thus:

Funny thing though Bam, for all your lauded tacit approval of such activities ("sex outside of marriage, kids being disrespectful to their parents, excessive alcohol consumption, tobacco usage, the use of addictive illicit drugs, masturbation, anal sex, tax evasion and so on)", the one thing that has not occurred in history, give or take a few years, is men marrying men, and women marrying women.



Quite so. And rationalisation of the use of methamphetamine is possible if one's game.

Icey, is English your first language?
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#22 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:51 PM

View Postscotto, on 12 July 2011 - 05:08 PM, said:

Icey, is English your first language?


Sorry if you struggle to keep up Scotto. Keep at it though :)
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#23 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:51 PM

View Posticey, on 13 July 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Sorry if you struggle to keep up Scotto. Keep at it though :)

Very good and readable answer! Keep it up!
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#24 User is offline   Julian Taylor 

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:40 PM

I find it quite ironic that Christian Fundamentalist America is so much further ahead of comparatively secular Australia on the issue of Gay marriage - then add to that mix the defense of traditional marriage by our Atheist PM, and Lesbian Finance minister, and it all becomes rather hilarious and depressing.
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#25 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 08:11 PM

It is funny Julian mentioning quote "an atheist PM" which I knew was Julia Gillard. But then he mentioned a "Finance minister who is a Lesbian"....I am saying to myself ..EH??? Then it came to me...our new Finance Minister is Penny Wong.Four houses down from me there is a conservative 85 year old pensioner and I was talking to him some months ago and he asked me do I remember Menzies talking about the "Asian hordes" coming down to Australia to take over. I said yes. Well he said it happened. Can't you see we even have an Asian minister in Canberra now!I just said goodbye politely and left....smiling to myself. This what I mean when I say that the electorate is made up with many people with different opinions...and many are naive.This old man was not being offensive or racist,He simply has a naive opinion of the issues involved which many people interpret as the former
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#26 User is offline   Julian Taylor 

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 08:23 PM

I'm sure gay marriage will get up in the end - and once it does people will wonder what all the fuss was about.
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#27 User is offline   JJ 

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 02:00 AM

I don't think there really is much fuss about it, other than the opposition from the Christian right which is over-represented in the debate. It'll be interesting to see what happens at the ALP conference in November, although I have a feeling that political necessity will dictate they defer a decision for another year or so. (Labor has no political capital left to speak of)
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#28 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:29 AM

It is funny about the human being...the more it attempts to be free, the more it suppresses itself.
I believe that any event on the planet which does not constitute a criminal action should be permitted to occur.
This is true freedom for everyone on the planet.But because of morality these freedoms are unashamedly suppressed.Morality should not be imposed on the masses as it is only an individual choice.If a person chooses to be of moral character...that is his/her business...but he/she not attempt to impose it on everyone else."Live and let live" should be the life motto
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#29 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:39 AM

View Posticey, on 09 July 2011 - 02:59 AM, said:

Prior post corrected thus:

Funny thing though Bam, for all your lauded tacit approval of such activities ("sex outside of marriage, kids being disrespectful to their parents, excessive alcohol consumption, tobacco usage, the use of addictive illicit drugs, masturbation, anal sex, tax evasion and so on)", the one thing that has not occurred in history, give or take a few years, is men marrying men, and women marrying women.

Icey. It was a list. I did not offer "tacit approval" just by making a list. Why are you twisting what I say in this way? It is a breach of forum rules to do this (see rules 1 and 3 for more information).

The only tacit approval for these activities must be among the religious fundamentalists, otherwise they would surely be up in arms about them? Or maybe they have too much to lose: in a world where greedy, sinful TV evangelists can make millions from gullible believers, it's pretty clear that there is a great deal of selectiveness on which parts of scripture that some choose to obey.
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#30 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 11:03 AM

So many gay couples want to get married in New York on the first day the gay marriage law goes into effect that the city is having a wedding lottery.

Gay marriage is now legal in six states in the USA and a recent poll found 53% of Americans are in favour of gay marriage. This is in a country where many people hold strong Christian beliefs.

In Australia, the constitutional right to legislate on marriage is held by the Federal Parliament, so we cannot have state-by-state marriage laws here.
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#31 User is offline   Senexx 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:39 PM

How do you shut conservatives up about gay marriage, you create a separate Act called the Gay Marriage Act and in that act give them all the same rights and responsibilities as in the Marriage Act.

Now watch the Gay Marriage proponents of different Gay politics fight it over that one. On one side we'll have its about the ceremony and on the other its about equal rights, the latter should be accepting of a Gay Marriage Act but whether they are or not, I'll turn it over to any of them here.
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#32 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:13 AM

View PostSenexx, on 20 July 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

How do you shut conservatives up about gay marriage, you create a separate Act called the Gay Marriage Act and in that act give them all the same rights and responsibilities as in the Marriage Act.

That's almost evil... there would be acidic debate over why LGB people should have a different act to straights, arguments over why it's the 'Gay Act' rather than the 'LGB Act', and so on and so forth. I think one Marriage Act for all should cover it..
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#33 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:40 AM

I think that what Senexx proposes is a novel idea but a law cannot be discriminatory and cannot effect discrimination.It may pass Parliament, but then it will be shot down in the High Court as being discriminatory.I am no legal expert but I would think that a separate Gay Marriage Act would be such a law. I am afraid same sex marriage would have to be incorporated in the existing Marriage Act. I am still astonished at this "big deal' people are making about this issue.
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#34 User is offline   Senexx 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 12:42 PM

View Postscotto, on 21 July 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

That's almost evil... there would be acidic debate over why LGB people should have a different act to straights, arguments over why it's the 'Gay Act' rather than the 'LGB Act', and so on and so forth. I think one Marriage Act for all should cover it..


Sure you could just as easily call it the LGBTI Act.

From my view, I would view the the two Acts as one Act. However, remember the purpose of distinguishing between the two is to shut up the whingers on all sides. Its a compromise not an ideology.
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#35 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:34 PM

View PostSenexx, on 21 July 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

Sure you could just as easily call it the LGBTI Act.

From my view, I would view the the two Acts as one Act. However, remember the purpose of distinguishing between the two is to shut up the whingers on all sides. Its a compromise not an ideology.

sure... I would be for calling it the 'Queer Folk and Assorted Wannabe's Marriage Licence Act'. Then listen to Alan Jones having a stroke [??] ..
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#36 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:43 PM

View PostBam, on 20 July 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

It is interesting how these fundies love beating the homosexual drum, yet do not seem to have read their scripture from cover to cover - otherwise they would also be up in arms about sex outside of marriage, kids being disrespectful to their parents, excessive alcohol consumption, tobacco usage, the use of addictive illicit drugs, masturbation, anal sex, tax evasion and so on - all of which are prohibited or discouraged by scripture. Which makes one wonder why they are silent on these things.


Are they silent?

View PostBam, on 20 July 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

Icey. It was a list. I did not offer "tacit approval" just by making a list. Why are you twisting what I say in this way? It is a breach of forum rules to do this (see rules 1 and 3 for more information).

The only tacit approval for these activities must be among the religious fundamentalists, otherwise they would surely be up in arms about them? Or maybe they have too much to lose: in a world where greedy, sinful TV evangelists can make millions from gullible believers, it's pretty clear that there is a great deal of selectiveness on which parts of scripture that some choose to obey.


Hmmm. Not wanting to break any rules or anything. I read an implied or tacit approval in your OP on vices in that you seemed to distance yourself from the "fundies who love beating the homosexual drum".

So make your correction of my position even clearer; you in fact dissaprove of the said vices, but retain your "non-fundy" hat? Feel free to correct my uncertain spelling and also keystrokes that drop off and double up my dodgey keyboard..

Senexx said:

How do you shut conservatives up about gay marriage, you create a separate Act called the Gay Marriage Act and in that act give them all the same rights and responsibilities as in the Marriage Act.


Could work. Personally I do not like the notion of "marriage" as being anything to do with two of the same sex (didn't see that coming did you), but create a new term and I could compartmentalise it.

I am "married" and two guys (or girls) are "gayly married".

"Hello, I'm Icey, meet my wife, Sweetpea, and how long have you been "gayly married" to Steve?

Or in the alternative, "Hello, I'm Icey, meet my wife, Sweetpea, and how long have you been with Steve, your partner?
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#37 User is offline   Julian Taylor 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 06:01 PM

I would pay to see 'gayly married' adopted as the official term. XD
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#38 User is offline   dumbcluck 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 06:14 PM

Yes the problem with having two marriage acts is that you cannot have two 'marriage' laws for specific members of the community. You will finish up with one marriage law for heterosexual members of the community and another for gay members of the community. This would be discriminatory.A law must apply equally to all members in that community I would presume that a "marriage act" would only need minimal amendments to it in order to accommodate the gay marriage laws.
And here I must comment on the many comments I hear from Christian pastors/spokespersons on this subject. They justify their opposition to these gay marriage laws on the premise that we have quote "a Christian culture" end quote here in Australia.This is a myth! There is no such thing as a Christian culture. There is a Christian faith. However the only culture which supersedes any other is only one.....the human culture!And it's the height of absurdity to claim that Australia wholly follows a Christian culture.
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#39 User is offline   Senexx 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:40 PM

Exactly the point Icey.
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#40 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:47 AM

View PostSenexx, on 21 July 2011 - 09:40 PM, said:

Exactly the point Icey.

Finally he gets it...... lmao... I know, I know..
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