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NBN Discussion Thread The National Broadband Network

#1 User is offline   JJ 

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 12:46 PM

This is a placeholder post - I plan to add some more to it.

Feel free to discuss the NBN here - it's going to be a crucial issue over the next couple of years.
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#2 User is offline   Neil 

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 12:50 PM

The NBN is a good idea this sort of thing?
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#3 User is offline   JJ 

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 01:45 PM

View PostNeil, on 15 January 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

The NBN is a good idea this sort of thing?

Haha sure. Feel free to expound on your thoughts though :)
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#4 Guest-bathurstone

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 05:26 PM

View PostNeil, on 15 January 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

The NBN is a good idea this sort of thing?
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#5 User is offline   Young gun political junkie 

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 05:44 PM

Can't see why the Liberals are opposing it. I can't see them gaining anything from opposing it, and it is a good bit of infrastructure. No-body cares about the cost, although some don't see it as important as it doesn't help themselves. Opposing the NBN won't win them any votes, and it'll definitely lose some in the country.
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#6 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 10:47 AM

View PostYoung gun political junkie, on 15 January 2011 - 05:44 PM, said:

Can't see why the Liberals are opposing it. I can't see them gaining anything from opposing it, and it is a good bit of infrastructure. No-body cares about the cost, although some don't see it as important as it doesn't help themselves. Opposing the NBN won't win them any votes, and it'll definitely lose some in the country.


I wish I was so confident. The coalition is very good at misinformation campaigns, and they have a largely compliant media behind them. I can see another BER type jihad coming up.
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#7 User is offline   johnsmith 

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 11:01 AM

Considering that some of Labor's figures were off by a few billion and roll out was underestimated I don't blame the Liberals for attacking it. Their main priority now is to make a policy on what to do with the NBN if it's half completed/in production when they get into government. Hopefully Jedi Master Turnbull can figure out something that is reasonable.

For major projects, the NBN is a great idea. But requires 70% take up in order to make positive return on the investment. However, for double digit billion dollar policies, the NBN kicks the ass of Free University by the Greens, I guess they weren't around in 1975 when the dismissal happened.
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#8 Guest-Ben Morrisson

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 11:40 AM

My understanding is that the Liberals and especially Turnbul (as I saw him speak directly on this) are not opposed to a nation broadband network they are opposed to the current design of the project.. as well they should be... I am a network engineer by trade and there is a lot of 'jobs for the boys' insider deals and whitewash going on with the current project... The Liberals are correct when they say the costings are suspect... They are awful as is the technology design of fibre to the household.

Labour needs to do this properly because the nation will not get another chance at this. On the other side the dedication of Conroy to getting this project off the ground and started is admirable. It needs to happen.

For my point of view though fibre to the household as stage one of the project is ridiculous. Fibre to the intersection of every major street would be more economically feasible and would fill in the black holes that still exist in existing broadband network infrastructure. I am in the middle of prosperous suburb in a mid sized town (60000 people) and all I have is 3G...

Now people claim we are going to need buckets of bandwidth for new generation applications... no! business will, education does, and medicine does... but the average user at home needs enough bandwidth to game/make phone/video calls/stream video full screen in hd/browse net/email legacy applications etc... I currently now all of these satisfactorily over a 3g mobile connection... it would take much more bandwidth to solve the small service interuptions I experience...

Correctly as conroy state it is the UPLOAD that is the bottleneck for application currently... this can be solved by converting last mile technology to synchronous bandwidth SHDSL or changing the nature and config of current ADSL2+ delivery to increase up stream capacity...

if there is a decent core fibre network that fills in the black holes then a stage two can always work on fibre for the last mile... if ever necessary... but right now I cant see the black spots getting service coverage before the end of the NBN project if ever...

Its still too much politics and not enough consultation and thought... money is going to be wasted and is even at risk of the o=money beign lost through bad design.. Our government reps should keep in mind this is about the taxpayer not points scoring...
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#9 User is offline   Neil 

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 02:08 PM

Alan Kohler, hardly a labor voter, thinks the NBN is a great idea http://www.crikey.co...-business-plan/

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This is a magnificent, awe-inspiring undertaking: there has never been anything like it, not in this country and probably not anywhere in the world.
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#10 User is offline   Epicurus 

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 12:02 PM

I will certainly be opting out as they iron out the problems. Most likely by that time too, other technologies will be more advanced and less expensive because they were corporate and not government enterprises.
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#11 User is offline   Eddie. 

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 07:44 AM

http://www.theaustra...x-1225989845281
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#12 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:51 PM

View PostYoung gun political junkie, on 15 January 2011 - 05:44 PM, said:

No-body cares about the cost, .......


Really? Such depth of understanding. As if the cost was not THE key point..

A Ferrari is good, a big mansion is better than a lesser brick home, or no CO2 output is better (if you like) than some CO2, or on a techno level, an Intel i7 is better than an i3 or (heaven help us) a Celeron),

But at what price?

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I can see another BER type jihad coming up.


Yes, like JJ, you can see Labor's mismanagement coming.

Guest_Ben Morrisson_*, Thanks for your post. Well stated. I concur.

Though Neil and his quoted mate Kohler apparently disagree.

Eddie, The NBN stands on it's own, but the creation of 400 jobs is surely a coup for the ranga. Go girl, go.

On the other hand, Gillard needs a little nudge to help her keep her promise of a surplus ,,,,

Scrap the NBN, says Abbott; Qld needs the money

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The Liberal leader described the NBN as “a luxury that Australia cannot now afford”. “The one thing you don’t do is re-do your bathroom when the roof has just been blown off and that’s the situation that we find ourselves in right now,” he said.
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#13 User is offline   Eb2 

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 06:03 AM

Not often I agree with you icey but the post from Ben Morrisson was pretty good.
I am no tech expert but why cant they run optical fiber to central suburban hubs and then have a dedicated wireless network for broadband from there to the home. I would assume this would get speeds of up to around 20-30 mbps. ( let me know if I am dreaming here)
I am currently running next G wireless and can get up to 8 mbps. comparable to ADSL2 in my area I believe.
This idea would be cheaper and more accessible to the average person in the street.
Just my 2cents.
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Tony will stop the boats, even if he has to buy them all.
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#14 User is offline   Neil 

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 01:47 PM

View PostEb2, on 19 January 2011 - 06:03 AM, said:

Not often I agree with you icey but the post from Ben Morrisson was pretty good.
I am no tech expert but why cant they run optical fiber to central suburban hubs and then have a dedicated wireless network for broadband from there to the home. I would assume this would get speeds of up to around 20-30 mbps. ( let me know if I am dreaming here)
I am currently running next G wireless and can get up to 8 mbps. comparable to ADSL2 in my area I believe.
This idea would be cheaper and more accessible to the average person in the street.
Just my 2cents.

This may work if you live in a central suburb but not for the rest of Australia.
The NBN is not just for inner city yuppies.
Of course the more demand for wireless broadband the less width you get, one person using 100 mbps wireless = 100 mbps 20 people using 100 mbps wireless = 5 mbps. Under the NBN it is 100 mbps to each premises.

Also the Nimbys will object to wireless towers on every street corner
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#15 User is offline   Neil 

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 02:15 PM

Dr Terry Cutler of the CSIRO supports the NBN http://www.itnews.co...needed-now.aspx

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I argue strongly that the national benefit from broadband infrastructure could probably be justified solely on the social and productivity gains realisable in the areas of health, environmental and resource management. That is without also looking at what we can learn from past patterns of adoption or from emerging trends in demand. It is time we moved away from the simply sloganeering that broadband will simply enable people to download movies and pornography faster and that "it is a conspiracy against taxpayers".

And

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Professor Peter Brooks reminds us that "80 percent of diagnoses can be made by taking the patient history alone", which is why online consultation and triage has such potential to treat people outside our costly acute-care facilities. It also provides better service access for people in non-metropolitan areas. In Queensland, a Professor of Geriatrics runs the Geriatric Ward at Toowoomba Hospital, which is 130 kilometres from Brisbane, from his office at Brisbane's Princess Alexandra Hospital. There are numerous similar examples around the country.
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#16 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 02:34 PM

View PostNeil, on 19 January 2011 - 01:47 PM, said:

Under the NBN it is 100 mbps to each premises.


Between you (the enduser) and the website/resource, is there any contention? Are you really expecting 100MBps "all the way"?

View PostNeil, on 19 January 2011 - 01:47 PM, said:

Also the Nimbys will object to wireless towers on every street corner


If they (the Nimby's, who I take to mean the pixies & rainbow lot) can get over Bob Brown losing the plot, then they can get over anything, even a few poles in the ground. And in any case, is their concern over telco equipment relevant to Australian society?

Prof Brooks said:

"80 percent of diagnoses can be made by taking the patient history alone"


Neil, if there was a point to be made there, can you give us all some indication of the bandwidth required to transmit case notes?

If you are not medically orientated, here's a sample: A 40-year-old man with spells of generalized weakness and paresthesias
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#17 Guest-Eddie Laird

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 12:04 PM

One of Abbott's brain farts again.

http://www.alp.org.a...aims-about-nbn/
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#18 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 03:07 PM

View PostEddie Laird, on 20 January 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

One of Abbott's brain farts again.

http://www.alp.org.a...aims-about-nbn/


I'd have thought it was a wong fart .......

Wrong Penny said:

Investment in the National Broadband Network does not affect our net debt or affect the level of deficit or surplus, because it is an asset that will generate income over time. Therefore it does not have an impact on our ability to assist in Queensland.


Strange claim, very strange. Not one I'd be putting on the party's website.
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#19 User is offline   JJ 

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 01:15 AM

View PostEb2, on 19 January 2011 - 06:03 AM, said:

Not often I agree with you icey but the post from Ben Morrisson was pretty good.
I am no tech expert but why cant they run optical fiber to central suburban hubs and then have a dedicated wireless network for broadband from there to the home. I would assume this would get speeds of up to around 20-30 mbps. ( let me know if I am dreaming here)
I am currently running next G wireless and can get up to 8 mbps. comparable to ADSL2 in my area I believe.
This idea would be cheaper and more accessible to the average person in the street.
Just my 2cents.


I am a tech expert and I can tell you that wireless is not a solution. There is simply not enough spectrum to allow for the number of simultaneous users that this sort of arrangement would entail. The whole problem with the "hey why don't we just use wireless" solution is that it would seriously require putting a mobile tower at the end of every street. It's actually cheaper to run fibre to the home.

The thing that people fail to recognise about fibre is that, once it's done, it will last for 50-100 years (probably more). The amount of bandwidth they can push down a fibre pipe increases every year. They only need to change the transponders at either end. This is why NBNCo was able to announce that 1Gbps would be available by the time of roll-out.

I really need to get some sleep, but I want to get this point across. This infrastructure has the potential to significantly revolutionise our economy. I used to work as an IT consultant for small to medium businesses and I can tell you that so many of them suffered productivity-wise due to lacklustre ADSL connections. Not because the connections were flakey - but because of the limitations of the technology. It is quite difficult to have any sort of work-from-home arrangement when your upstream bandwidth is limited to 1.5mbps. The NBN would basically allow you to access your work machines at speeds indecipherable from your local home network for most applications (I'm talking documents, spreadsheets, images and even light video work). It will also allow regional areas to become e-commerce hubs. It has the ptoential to level the playing field in this increasingly online world.

Furthermore, there is the media component. Right now, our media is primarily the domain of the free-to-air networks and Foxtel. The NBN has the potential to level this playing field too. It will herald the beginning of ubiquitous IPTV. With the vast majority of the Australian population on the NBN, there will finally be a market for new players in the media market. You'll just plug your TV into your router and be able to access multiple providers at the touch of a button...
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#20 User is offline   Neil 

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 01:52 PM

Dr Vint Cerf praises the NBN http://bigpondnews.c...gle_568198.html
Cerf one of the internet's leading authorities supports the building the NBN.
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