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NBN Discussion Thread The National Broadband Network

#561 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 04:58 PM

View PostBam, on 07 May 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:


Top post :emot-waycool:
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Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
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#562 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:52 PM

View PostRoderick, on 07 May 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

Top post :emot-waycool:


Yes, it should bring a few followers to Turnbull's fold.
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#563 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 10:17 PM

View Posticey, on 07 May 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Yes, it should bring a few followers to Turnbull's fold.

Probably the same kind of people that buy cheap crappy shit and then wonder why it breaks just after the warranty expires.

But really, who in their right mind would want the Coalition's slower, more expensive offering?
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#564 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:27 AM

Beware Turnbull’s Triple NBN Tax – your hidden out-of-pocket expenses
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#565 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:22 AM

this
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#566 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:14 AM

Quote

Hidden within the Liberal party’s broadband policy is a little gem called “co-funded fibre”. On the face of it, this seems like a good idea: allow “state or local governments, utilities or investors” to pay for half of a FTTH deployment in an area they feel needs it & the government will pay the other half.

“Wonderful,” I hear you shout, “surely my ISP/council/local/state government will be onto this straight away!” Not so! Co-funding will only be made available if it is “commercially or operationally infeasible”, and even then, “NBN Co may refuse any co-funded proposal that is commercially or operationally infeasible, provided a written explanation is provided to the originator and NBN Co shareholder Ministers.”

So essentially, unless it can make money AND the board of NBN Co AND the relevant Minister agrees to it, you won’t be getting FTTH. This does not bode well for any possible FTTH co-funding, essentially limiting it to areas with high socioeconomic indicators, leaving the poor to pay the full cost for “fibre on demand”.


http://sortius-is-a-geek.com/?p=3076

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#567 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:36 PM

Welcome to Bagdad


Quote

The telecommunications pits have been nicknamed 'bag-dad' by contractors because of the plastic bags, that are in theory supposed to keep the water out.

The copper network is a crucial element of the Opposition's alternative broadband plan.




Quote



Key points
  • Unions say Telstra's copper network is in a state of "disrepair".
  • Unions have nicknamed the cables ‘bag-dad’ because of the plastic bags used to protect them.
  • CEPU NSW assistant secretary Shane Murphy says it is time to replace the whole network.
  • Telstra says it spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year operating and maintaining its copper network.
  • The Coalition has vowed to replace any copper that does not meet minimum standards.
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#568 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:18 AM

Going by the lack of response by supporters of Fraudband of late, I guess this debate is settled in favour of the NBN.

But Albo in full flight is a sight to behold. Even Turnbull (who I suspect doesn't believe the crap he is spouting himself) had a bit of an involuntary chuckle.

Enjoy.


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#569 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 09:37 PM

Porky pies fly thick and fast as pollies log in for broadband boost .

Quote

Labor MPs have been running highly contestable and in some cases ''deliberately misleading'' advertisements for the national broadband network, experts say.


From the same Fairfax article .....

Quote

CORRECTION: NBN's costs are funded by government borrowing on the international bond market, not by taxpayer borrowing as originally suggested.


What's the difference between "government borrowing" and "taxpayer borrowing"? Am I missing something?
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#570 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:30 AM

View Posticey, on 24 July 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

What's the difference between "government borrowing" and "taxpayer borrowing"? Am I missing something?




This is a bit out of date but it describes the funding model.



Quote

The $27.5bn Government component of the NBN is funded by debt, through the issuing of Australian Government Bonds. That is, the Federal Government offers our AAA-rated bonds to investors, at an interest rate of about 4% (depending on the term).

The NBN however, will provide a return of about 7%. This means that (once the network is operational), the NBN will begin repaying those bonds at a higher rate than what Government is paying on the debt. By 2034, the entire Government investment (including the interest) will have been repaid by the users of the network, leaving the Government owning a valuable asset (the NBN network) and no associated debt. Big users of the network (those who choose the high speed and high volume plans) will contribute more towards repayment of the debt, and actually subsidise those on smaller plans.

....................

Because the NBN is funded by debt, and it provides a return which is higher than the cost of that debt, there is no impact on the budget from its funding.





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#571 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

View PostHDMC, on 25 July 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

This is a bit out of date but it describes the funding model.


Seems to me that if entity "icey" buys real estate using borrowed funds, then icey is burdened with debt and associated interest. Mayhaps a wise choice of property will see the burden eased by capital gains given time .... or maybe not.

The entity still has to pay along the way and in the case of the NBN, that entity remains the government which effectively means you and I no matter how you dress it.
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#572 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:45 AM

View Posticey, on 25 July 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Seems to me that if entity "icey" buys real estate using borrowed funds, then icey is burdened with debt and associated interest. Mayhaps a wise choice of property will see the burden eased by capital gains given time .... or maybe not.

The entity still has to pay along the way and in the case of the NBN, that entity remains the government which effectively means you and I no matter how you dress it.



Quote

As I have argued here and directly to Malcolm Turnbull, the NBN might
seem expensive, but it’s not a cost to the budget – it’s an
investment, using cheap government borrowings, so the ROI hurdle is
lower than privately funded projects.



Alan Kohler


How is the Coalition's fraudband funded, BTW?
Or the $700m annual cost of maintaining the decaying copper network for that matter?
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#573 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:24 AM

Speaking of the copper network, Sortius has some interesting new information.

Quote

Telstra’s own documentation hosted by the ACCC:
3.1.1 Transmission Limit Considerations

The only cable gauges installed in the network today are listed below;

  • The smallest gauge cable, 0.32mm, has inadequate transmission properties for normal urban use so is only used in areas where there is limited housing capacity and a short loop length requirement to the customer. In this model, 0.32mm cable would only be used in a CBD environment as sufficient duct space would be created in urban areas to install standard cable sizes.Access Network Dimensioning Rules Page 5 of 14
  • The 0.40mm gauge cable is the cable of choice in urban areas. In practice, it should be the heaviest cable gauge installed into the urban network today as network beyond the transmission limits of that cable should be on a fibre fed technology. For the purpose of this model, 0.64mm gauge cable may be used in urban areas to reach customers in DA’s which are currently fed by cable but are beyond 0.40mm transmission limits.
  • The heavier gauge cables are most often used in Rural and Remote areas. Of these, 0.64mm is currently the most widely used and is often used beyond its stated transmission limit, with voice levels maintained by utilising loading coils and additional active gain devices. 0.90mm cable was used in the rural and remote environments in the past for customers having excessive distance from the communications building, in recent times 0.64mm cable with active gain devices has mostly replaced 0.90mm cable.
Well, there you have it, Telstra’s own design documentation stating that in urban areas 0.40mm & 0.32mm copper are the most common used. 0.64 copper is most widely used in “Rural & Remote” areas: read, covered by Wireless under the NBN.

This would mean that in areas with 0.40mm & 0.32mm copper you’d need a cabinet every 300m to 500m (MAX) down the cable run, along a street this could be as close as every 100m depending on the cable run. This would mean millions of cabinets, yes, millions, with only a few lines attached. We’re talking in the region of 4 to 10 lines per cabinet. Once the cost of the cabinet & ISAM are factored in, this takes the cost of deploying FTTN way over the Coalition’s claimed ~$30b build target.
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#574 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:09 AM

Ah, the grand old Liberal tradition of openness and honesty still lives on.



Quote

Stephen Ellis, a policy adviser for Turnbull, told Steve Jenkin, who publishes a blog called Steviej on NBN, in an email that "no one takes your psychotic rantings seriously. Nobody."

Ellis added: "Given what you write is a delusional fantasy that exists only in your own mind, you can get fucked."

In a blogpost detailing the exchange, Jenkin said he had been seeking information from Ellis on the wholesale costs associated with the Coalition's alternative National Broadband Network.

Ellis responded by saying that he marked Jenkin's emails as "junk (like your copy)" and that the blogger's numbers were "all wrong".

"Since the NBN stands to be greatly modified under whoever wins, your serial lies and distortions will be exposed in due course. In the meantime do not contact me again. Have a nice life."


http://www.theguardi...s-staffer-email



"Since the NBN stands to be greatly modified under whoever wins"?

I'd like Turnbull to expand on that one too.



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#575 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:22 AM

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#576 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 04:25 PM

Went and saw Swannie and his fellow-in-exile Conroy talking up the NBN to the local community yesterday.


Claims made to the mainly over 40 yrs audience re: NBN benefits included:

* NBN will "turbo charge" wifi hotspots (don't know how given wifi's much lower speed)

* There'll be 25 internet connected devices per home in 2017, and 50 by 2022. Reference was made to the old internet savvy fridge (certainly a contender for bandwidth if it receives fresh food via fibre).

* Astrophysics is available as a subject for some grade 10 kids in a country town of 1200 people.

* Kids can remotely move a Canberra museum robot which has 16 cameras making it roll down the corridor and select whatever takes their fancy for closer inspection.

* Kids can remotely control a Mars robot simulator.

* Kids can remotely ask actors questions after a performance has been viewed.

* Diabetes management will be improved


Sounded like waffle as justification for near fibre everywhere at a cost of 40 to 80 billion $$ (of course the comrades made mention only of 37 billion).

One self-confessed bandwidth junkie said he was going to wind back his full speed fibre plan as it simply wasn't delivering the speed from overseas sites.

edit: fix typos
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#577 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:12 AM

10. We Forget Why DBCDE Chose FTTP
Sortius /
One part of the debate on what technology to use for the National Broadband Network is rather lacking: reliability. We can talk about speeds, capabilities, & costs all we want, but without addressing this basic problem with the current network, we’re headed for certain disaster.
www.sortius-is-a-geek.com/.../#.UkGgHre1_X4

11. No Confidence or No Clue
Sortius
So why did Turnbull demand the whole board resign? Basically Turnbull is setting up NBN Co to fail. I’ve written on this previously, & now I’m as sure as ever that Turnbull’s intention is to destroy the NBN, even now they are in office. This is the first step in many that will ultimately end in Telstra purchasing the NBN for below cost price.
http://www.sortius-i...m/author/admin/

12. The death of NBN Co: OZ Telecoms permanently screwed.
Steve Jenkin
Alan Kohler today gives Ziggy advice on accepting the "hospital pass" which is the NBN Co CEO/Chair role. He's forgetting that Ziggy presided for 5 years over the meltdown of Telstra's PSTN business and ran a strong under-investment strategy for the Howard Government. We know this because Sol Trujilo penned these words just 6 weeks after assuming control in 2005. To me the resignation of the NBN Board says they won't be the fall guys for when NBN Co goes broke, as it must and as Turnbull has always known that it must, under his Plan.
stevej-on-nbn.blogspot.com.au/.../...telecoms.html
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#578 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:39 AM

Interesting thoughts. There indeed has been not one word on the reliability/maintainence issue. Switkowsky seems to be the favourite for a few LNP pipe dreams, such as a nuclear power, so maybe he's being brought in (if this turns out to be so) to preside over the failure of theNBN.
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#579 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:04 AM

Quote

Exclusive

The Coalition’s national broadband network model will prove inadequate for many businesses, is poorly planned and is unlikely to be completed on time, according to NBN Co’s internal analysis for the incoming Abbott government.

Obtained by Fairfax Media, the analysis casts doubts over the timing and cost-effectiveness of the government’s proposed fibre-to-the-node model, highlighting numerous legislative, construction and technical challenges likely to blow out the Coalition’s 2016 and 2019 delivery deadlines.

The draft document also slashes revenue projections important for the project’s commercial viability by up to 30 per cent by 2021.


http://www.smh.com.a...1128-hv3tp.html




Jeez, I didn't see that coming.

Much.


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#580 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:38 AM

Then -

Quote

"Under the Coalition’s NBN all premises will have access to download speeds 25mbps to 100mbps by the end of 2016. The minimum speed will rise to 50mbps by the end of 2019 for 90 per cent of fixed line users."

And,

"Our plan will cost $29.5 billion. This will ensure the NBN is cash flow positive and can operate without assistance from government."

And,

“The national broadband network policy was released many months ago by myself and Malcolm [Turnbull]. The Government’s been crawling all over it. No-one has been able to question the costings. It is absolutely bulletproof.”



Now -

Quote

Guarantees about minimum internet speeds to be delivered under Australia’s national broadband network have “lost currency”, the head of NBN Co told a Senate committee on Tuesday.

The NBN Co executive chairman, Ziggy Switkowski, said he would work to bring down the projected cost of delivering the Abbott government’s version of the NBN. Peak funding for the Coalition plan has been estimated at $41bn, up from the $29.5bn cost the pre-election policy document suggested.
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