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The next Labor Leader (an unequal opportunity position)

Poll: Counting the days (6 member(s) have cast votes)

Will Gillard last beyond the QLD state election (March 24)

  1. No (1 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  2. Yes (5 votes [83.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 83.33%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#161 User is offline   GeorgeParsons 

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:30 PM

HDMC:
I take your point. However there is nothing new in the politics of the moment.Rudd is doing what so many ALP politicians have done in the past. I suspect that Julia can only put this to bed if her polls improve markedly. As an ALP supporter and member I hope this happens but...
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#162 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 05:21 PM

View PostGeorgeParsons, on 26 February 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

I suspect that Julia can only put this to bed if her polls improve markedly. As an ALP supporter and member I hope this happens but...


I see tomorrow being a lose-lose event for remaining ALP supporters. Both contenders are proven damaged goods, and so the winner of tomorrow's spill can be predicted with consummate certainty. Tony Abbott.

Sorry guys!
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#163 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 05:47 PM

View Posticey, on 26 February 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I see tomorrow being a lose-lose event for remaining ALP supporters. Both contenders are proven damaged goods, and so the winner of tomorrow's spill can be predicted with consummate certainty. Tony Abbott.

Sorry guys!


I'm confident that Gillard can handle one opposition leader with ease. After all she's been doing ok against two.
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#164 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 05:56 PM

View PostGeorgeParsons, on 26 February 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

HDMC:
I take your point. However there is nothing new in the politics of the moment.Rudd is doing what so many ALP politicians have done in the past. I suspect that Julia can only put this to bed if her polls improve markedly. As an ALP supporter and member I hope this happens but...


Yeah George, but there comes a time when simply being in government is not enough. Even If I endorsed your view that Rudd could beat Abbott - and I don't, I remember exactly when the polls started heading south - you still have to stand for something. Winning the news cycle with photo ops will always lose out to good policy given time. Abbott has yet to learn that, but he will. Rudd never will, he's addicted to the limelight.

That's why Gillard is by far the better option for the nation.
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#165 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:20 PM

View PostHDMC, on 26 February 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

That's why Gillard is by far the better option for the nation.

Just curious - did not Peacock challenge Fraser while he was PM?
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#166 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:03 PM

The Abbott media conference afterwards was largely a waste of time.

Some points from that conference:

He says the challenge for her is to run a competent government, and this is not going to happen. Did Abbott make any attempt at citing any proof?

He points out that a third of her caucus don't have confidence in the PM. This is a rubbish point considering that by the same criteria he doesn't have the support of half his own party. Gillard said as much during Question Time when Abbott asked this as a question.

"The public has concluded that minority government is an experiment that's failed." Really? Legislation is being passed, isn't it? Rather a long bow, considering that the opinion polling does not seem to support this point.
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#167 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:31 PM

View PostBam, on 27 February 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

The Abbott media conference afterwards was largely a waste of time.

He lost me when he started talking aboiut Rudd as "a whistleblower." Please.

Given he won the leadership contest by one vote with someone absent.... maybe he shouldn't be throwing stones.
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#168 User is offline   lenxyz 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:35 PM

View PostBam, on 27 February 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:


"The public has concluded that minority government is an experiment that's failed." Really? Legislation is being passed, isn't it? Rather a long bow, considering that the opinion polling does not seem to support this point.


The legislation that is being passed is what PM Gillard can manage to get through parliament. Some important legislation is just not being submitted because losing a vote on a major piece of legislation would be unprecedented. Where is the asylum seeker legislation?

As for the opinion polling, forget Newspoll, the latest from ER confirms what most people would expect - Labor has taken a hit from its latest troubles. ER has the Coalition 2PP 56/44 up 2 in two weeks. See psephology thread: http://dailywire.com...page__pid__6456
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#169 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:00 PM

View Postlenxyz, on 27 February 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

The legislation that is being passed is what PM Gillard can manage to get through parliament. Some important legislation is just not being submitted because losing a vote on a major piece of legislation would be unprecedented. Where is the asylum seeker legislation?

It's still rather a lot that IS being passed; much more than what passed before her term as PM - even long time journos have been offering this observation for some time. Some things have not gotten a call - say, pokies reform - but a great deal more has.
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#170 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:28 PM

View PostBam, on 27 February 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

He says the challenge for her is to run a competent government, and this is not going to happen. Did Abbott make any attempt at citing any proof?


I reach for the book of sayings, and it says that history speaks for itself.

View PostBam, on 27 February 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

He points out that a third of her caucus don't have confidence in the PM. This is a rubbish point considering that by the same criteria he doesn't have the support of half his own party.


A stable government would ideally have rank and file support. The opposition can go on a two week trip to Timbuktu without a whole lot of difference to the governance of the land.

View PostBam, on 27 February 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

"The public has concluded that minority government is an experiment that's failed." Really? Legislation is being passed, isn't it? Rather a long bow, considering that the opinion polling does not seem to support this point.


Aside from the long bow of suggesting minority governments be outlawed, are you saying that the "new paradigm" is a raging success to hold up for the world to see?
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#171 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

View Postscotto, on 27 February 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

It's still rather a lot that IS being passed; much more than what passed before her term as PM - even long time journos have been offering this observation for some time. Some things have not gotten a call - say, pokies reform - but a great deal more has.


Lotsa legislation is being touted as a sign of success, but I'd warily suggest that it's a sign of over-governance and the Nanny state.

Lawyers paid to unravel (and indeed, design) the quagmire would doubtless disagree.
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#172 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:50 PM

View Posticey, on 27 February 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Aside from the long bow of suggesting minority governments be outlawed, are you saying that the "new paradigm" is a raging success to hold up for the world to see?

Did you know that it took Belgium 541 days to form a government after their most recent elections? I wouldn't worry about the occasional minority government. In Australia minority governments from both sides of politics have still got the job done. Qld, Victoria, Tasmania, WA, NT, SA and the Federal government have all had minority small-c coalition governments in the last 20 years and all have duly got on with the job of governing.

Abbott's claims to the contrary are really not credible.
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#173 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:59 AM

View Posticey, on 27 February 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

A stable government would ideally have rank and file support. The opposition can go on a two week trip to Timbuktu without a whole lot of difference to the governance of the land.

You got that right - I would say at least a month or two. In fact, we've seen that regularly in the last year.
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#174 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:01 PM

View Posticey, on 27 February 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Lotsa legislation is being touted as a sign of success, but I'd warily suggest that it's a sign of over-governance and the Nanny state.

Hmmm..... even though some of that legislation is to undo the LNP-endorsed nanny state, like the private health insurance rebate?

Maybe we should see some unravelling of the business nanny state, like deisel fuel rebates for mining companies?
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#175 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:07 PM

View Postscotto, on 29 February 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Hmmm..... even though some of that legislation is to undo the LNP-endorsed nanny state, like the private health insurance rebate?


On some reading, income tax could be considered indicative of the nanny in action. Private health insurance rebates don't fit my idea of a nanny state but it's obviously open to loose interpretation to suit the cause.
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#176 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:26 PM

View Posticey, on 29 February 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

On some reading, income tax could be considered indicative of the nanny in action. Private health insurance rebates don't fit my idea of a nanny state but it's obviously open to loose interpretation to suit the cause.

Or tax cuts for higher income earners.... Whatever...
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