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Tibet China's empire is trying to protest.

#1 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:39 AM

Conitnuing public protests by Tibetans against to occupation by China show no sign of abating. The government there is attempting to quell any news of continual self-immolations inside China which are estimated to be taking place at the rate of one or two per month; reports from the areas concerned say that fire brigades are permanently stationed in the public streets to combat the protests.

The Chinese maintain their policy of asserting 'seperatists' and 'terrorists' are responsible for these actions, much as they do over protests regarding work and prices in other parts of the country.

Can we really regard China as part of the modern world while its government continues these policies?
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#2 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:48 AM

More self-immolationsin China in protest at the ongoing occupation of Tibet. This brings the number of protest victims to 51 since last year.
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#3 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:27 AM

View Postscotto, on 29 March 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Can we really regard China as part of the modern world while its government continues these policies?

There is another country that considers itself a world leader in human rights, but has the envious record of the only nation in the world to successfully genocide an entire race of people, along with a policy of locking up innocent people with no judicial oversight for an indeterminate amount of time, and this has been widely condemned by human rights groups around the world. Oh, and they enacted legislation that required specific portions of the policy that stops discrimination based on race to be suspended.
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#4 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:37 AM

View PostNotFrogman, on 29 August 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

There is another country that considers itself a world leader in human rights, but has the envious record of the only nation in the world to successfully genocide an entire race of people, along with a policy of locking up innocent people with no judicial oversight for an indeterminate amount of time, and this has been widely condemned by human rights groups around the world. Oh, and they enacted legislation that required specific portions of the policy that stops discrimination based on race to be suspended.

Bit short on detail. :rolleyes:
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#5 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:46 AM

View PostRoderick, on 29 August 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

Bit short on detail. :rolleyes:

What more detail would you like?
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#6 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:09 AM

View PostNotFrogman, on 29 August 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

What more detail would you like?

Name perhaps?
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#7 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:10 AM

View PostRoderick, on 29 August 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Name perhaps?

Australia.
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#8 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:12 AM

View PostNotFrogman, on 29 August 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Australia.

Not that I disagree in some senses with this, but I think China is one of the runaway leaders in the 'how to treat people badly' stakes.
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#9 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:17 AM

NotFrogman said,

Quote

but has the envious record of the only nation in the world to successfully genocide an entire race of people

When did this happen and what 'race'?
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#10 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:22 AM

View Postscotto, on 29 August 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Not that I disagree in some senses with this, but I think China is one of the runaway leaders in the 'how to treat people badly' stakes.

I dont think there is any country in the world with a sparkling record on human rights. I believe the best thing we can do is fix up the shit we got wrong in our own country, then start pointing the finger at others.

Cos right now, we are ruled by a government that is presiding over an indigenous incarceration rate greater than that of the blacks under apartheid, along with worse public health and education levels.

View PostRoderick, on 29 August 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

NotFrogman said,
When did this happen and what 'race'?

http://en.wikipedia....ginal_Tasmanian

Your lack of knowledge of Australian history is in many ways an indicator of how successful this dark part of Australian history was.
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#11 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:37 AM

View PostNotFrogman, on 29 August 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

I dont think there is any country in the world with a sparkling record on human rights. I believe the best thing we can do is fix up the shit we got wrong in our own country, then start pointing the finger at others.

Cos right now, we are ruled by a government that is presiding over an indigenous incarceration rate greater than that of the blacks under apartheid, along with worse public health and education levels.

I'm not denying that there are parts of our own current issues that need attention. To say that this means we can have nothing to say about others' is, I think mistaken.

For a start, this is the exact rationale used by China on occasion to ignore any criticism of it's own human rights abuses.
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#12 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:39 AM

View Postscotto, on 29 August 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

I'm not denying that there are parts of our own current issues that need attention. To say that this means we can have nothing to say about others' is, I think mistaken.

For a start, this is the exact rationale used by China on occasion to ignore any criticism of it's own human rights abuses.

I know, but we should at least start making an attempt to fix up blatant human rights abuses here, before we try and take the high moral ground towards any other nation.
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#13 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:45 AM

View PostNotFrogman, on 29 August 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

I know, but we should at least start making an attempt to fix up blatant human rights abuses here, before we try and take the high moral ground towards any other nation.

I disagree. I see no reason why we can't talk about a number of things at the same time, applying the same standards and expectations to each situation. Otherwise I would think there's a great risk of acheiving nothing. Also, I'm not personally responsible for the problems in Australia, or theones in China, but I feel at last partly responsible for speaking out about both of them.
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#14 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:53 AM

Fair call.

Every human rights abuse situation needs more talking done about it. Thats why places like North Korea are included in the UN panels on the topics.

It just annoys me when Australia(ns) think they are squeaky clean on human rights abuses.
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#15 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:05 AM

View PostNotFrogman, on 29 August 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Fair call.

Every human rights abuse situation needs more talking done about it. Thats why places like North Korea are included in the UN panels on the topics.

It just annoys me when Australia(ns) think they are squeaky clean on human rights abuses.

True, I guess residents of every western democarcy tend to think we're all okay when really that's not the case.
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#16 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:21 AM

View PostNotFrogman, on 29 August 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

. . . .

http://en.wikipedia....ginal_Tasmanian

Your lack of knowledge of Australian history is in many ways an indicator of how successful this dark part of Australian history was.

There are a few definitions of Genocide and Australia has never successfully 'genocided' an entire race of people, if by genocide you mean the wiping out of an entire 'race' of people. Many other countries are credited with successful genocide; take your pick of the definitions and apply as required.

Tasmanians were not wiped out, they are still around.

Australia cannot be blamed for what happened in Tasmania in the 1800s as Australia as a nation did not exist until 1901. If blame is to be apportioned then it lays, primarily with the administration of Van Dieman's Land and secondarily with the Governor of NSW; ultimate authority and therefore responsibility lay with Great Britain.

Tasmania didn't become a Self-Governing Colony till 1856.

Here endeth the History lesson for the nonce.
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#17 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:25 AM

View PostNotFrogman, on 29 August 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....ginal_Tasmanian

Your lack of knowledge of Australian history is in many ways an indicator of how successful this dark part of Australian history was.


You may be unaware that your claim that we are "the only nation in the world to successfully genocide an entire race of people" is not accepted by all and sundry. Also from wiki:

Quote

Among scholars specializing in Australian history much recent debate has focused on whether indeed what happened to groups of Aborigines, and especially the Tasmanian Aborigines during the European colonisation of Australia can be classified as genocide. According to Mark Levene, most Australian experts are now "considerably more circumspect".


Historian Keith Windschuttle in particular has a lot to say about the matter.
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#18 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:41 AM

View PostRoderick, on 29 August 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

There are a few definitions of Genocide

Name them. I tend to go by the UN's definition of the crime, but im always interested to hear other views.

Quote

and Australia has never successfully 'genocided' an entire race of people, if by genocide you mean the wiping out of an entire 'race' of people.

So did you just not read the bit about how the Aboriginals Tasmanians were wiped out?

Quote

Many other countries are credited with successful genocide; take your pick of the definitions and apply as required.
Ok, my bad, turns out other countries are fucking despicable as well. Doesn't really make much difference when you are talking about wiping out an entire race of people.

Quote

Tasmanians were not wiped out, they are still around.

Really? Where? Please note im not talking about white Tasmanians.

Quote

Australia cannot be blamed for what happened in Tasmania in the 1800s as Australia as a nation did not exist until 1901. If blame is to be apportioned then it lays, primarily with the administration of Van Dieman's Land and secondarily with the Governor of NSW; ultimate authority and therefore responsibility lay with Great Britain.

Tasmania didn't become a Self-Governing Colony till 1856.

Here endeth the History lesson for the nonce.

Really? Thats your angle? Thats a new low for you.
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#19 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:42 AM

Whatever, guys... something on topic now? How about those Tibetans?
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#20 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:46 AM

View Posticey, on 29 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Historian Keith Windschuttle in particular has a lot to say about the matter.

I am completely unsurprised to hear you bring his name up. Here, read this, and get back to me..

http://www.themonthl...son-texts--1028
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