The Daily Wire: Israel and Hamas - The Daily Wire

Jump to content

  • 7 Pages +
  • « First
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • Last »

Israel and Hamas

#61 User is offline   scotto 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • View blog
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4300
  • Joined: 14-January 11
  • LocationNewcastle, NSW

Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:01 PM

View PostRoderick, on 20 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Well who, in general, fires rockets at superior forces; particularly when they have nowhere to which to retreat:

You can't work that out?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#62 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:26 PM

Its a fact that all Israeli citizens spend time in the army. Therefore they are all soldiers. Therefore they are all part of the IDF. Therefore they should not be counted as civilians.

Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#63 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:32 PM

View PostRoderick, on 20 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Not at all, their efforts allowed some of their people to escape, but no one is forcing Palestinians to stay where they are, unless it is their fellow Arabs and religious bretheren that won't give them asylum.

No, you are wrong.

There is a literal wall around Palestine, and checkpoints that restrict movement of Palestinians, and they are unable to use some of the roads in their own country, and the rules are changed arbitrarily with no warning, and its all done by Israel.

You do know that Israel does that? That it literally stops Palestinians from escaping? Maybe you didnt? Im happy to give you the benefit of the doubt in this instance, because you are clearly suffering from a whole shitload of misconceptions.

Quote

Totally different to the Warsaw Ghetto.

Given that you now know you are wrong, would you like to try again?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#64 User is offline   Roderick 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2748
  • Joined: 15-April 12
  • LocationNew England, NSW, Australia

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

View Postscotto, on 20 November 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

You can't work that out?

No.
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
0

#65 User is offline   Roderick 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2748
  • Joined: 15-April 12
  • LocationNew England, NSW, Australia

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostFrogman, on 20 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

No, you are wrong.

There is a literal wall around Palestine, and checkpoints that restrict movement of Palestinians, and they are unable to use some of the roads in their own country, and the rules are changed arbitrarily with no warning, and its all done by Israel.

You do know that Israel does that? That it literally stops Palestinians from escaping? Maybe you didnt? Im happy to give you the benefit of the doubt in this instance, because you are clearly suffering from a whole shitload of misconceptions.


Given that you now know you are wrong, would you like to try again?

2). Totally different to the Warsaw Ghetto.
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
0

#66 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:52 AM

View PostRoderick, on 20 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

2). Totally different to the Warsaw Ghetto.


Fun fact, Israel was founded by literal terrorist groups.

Explain to the class how this situation is different.





Posted Image
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#67 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:02 AM

Quote

The Dahiya doctrine is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general Gadi Eizenkot that pertains to asymmetric warfare in an urban setting, in which the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence.

The first public announcement of the doctrine was made by General Gadi Eizenkot, commander of the IDF's northern front, in October 2008. He said that what happened in the Dahiya (also transliterated as Dahiyeh and Dahieh) quarter of Beirut in 2006 would, "happen in every village from which shots were fired in the direction of Israel. We will wield disproportionate power against [them] and cause immense damage and destruction. From our perspective, these are military bases... this isn't a suggestion. Its a plan that has already been authorized... harming the population is the only means of restraining Nasrallah.

http://en.wikipedia....Dahiya_doctrine

Quote

The Samson Option is Israel's alleged deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against nations whose military attacks threaten its existence, and possibly against other targets as well.

Ron Rosenbaum writes in his 2012 book How the End Begins: The Road to a Nuclear World War III that in the "aftermath of a second Holocaust" Israel's surviving Dolphin-class nuclear missile submarines would retaliate not only against Israel's attackers, but "bring down the pillars of the world (attack Moscow and European capitals for instance)" as well as the "holy places of Islam." He writes that "abandonment of proportionality is the essence" of the Samson Option.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Samson_Option

Quote

During the 1973 war, Israel used nuclear blackmail to force Kissinger and Nixon to airlift massive amounts of military hardware to Israel. The Israeli Ambassador, Simha Dinitz, is quoted as saying, at the time, "If a massive airlift to Israel does not start immediately, then I will know that the U.S. is reneging on its promises and...we will have to draw very serious conclusions..."(30) Just one example of this strategy was spelled out in 1987 by Amos Rubin, economic adviser to Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir, who said "If left to its own Israel will have no choice but to fall back on a riskier defense which will endanger itself and the world at large... To enable Israel to abstain from dependence on nuclear arms calls for $2 to 3 billion per year in U.S. aid."

http://www.globalres...es/STE203A.html

Quote

Hersh includes two threatening sounding quotations from Israeli leaders. He writes that a “former Israeli govt official” with “first hand knowledge of his government’s nuclear weapons program” told him: We can still remember the smell of Auschwitz and Treblinka. Next time we’ll take all of you with us.[14] And he quotes then Israeli defense minister Ariel Sharon [who later became prime minister] as saying: We are much more important than (Americans) think. We can take the Middle East with us whenever we go.

http://en.wikipedia...._Foreign_Policy

Quote

In our struggle against apartheid, the great supporters were Jewish people. They almost instinctively had to be on the side of the disenfranchised, of the voiceless ones, fighting injustice, oppression and evil. I have continued to feel strongly with the Jews. I am patron of a Holocaust centre in South Africa. I believe Israel has a right to secure borders.
What is not so understandable, not justified, is what it did to another people to guarantee its existence. I've been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about.

On one of my visits to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security. But what of the Palestinians who have lost their land and homes?

I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their homes, now occupied by Jewish Israelis. I was walking with Canon Naim Ateek (the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre) in Jerusalem. He pointed and said: "Our home was over there. We were driven out of our home; it is now occupied by Israeli Jews."

My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon? Have they turned their backs on their profound and noble religious traditions? Have they forgotten that God cares deeply about the downtrodden?


http://www.guardian..../apr/29/comment
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#68 User is offline   Roderick 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2748
  • Joined: 15-April 12
  • LocationNew England, NSW, Australia

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:18 AM

When was the last time Israelis shewed their manhood by ambushing a school bus?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
0

#69 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:28 AM

View PostRoderick, on 21 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

When was the last time Israelis shewed their manhood by ambushing a school bus?

Was it before or after they targeted schools and hospitals with WP munitions? Was it before or after they strapped a child to a windscreen of an army vehicle? Was it before or after they violated a 6 month ceasefire with an operation that took 6 months to plan? Was it before or after they placed an illegal blockade on a civilian population with the expressed intention of keeping the population at starving point? Was it before or after they knowingly targeted buildings containing foreign journalists?

Why is it an abominable crime to blow up a school bus (Im not arguing that it isnt an abominable crime) but targeting a school with WP munitions isnt?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#70 User is offline   Roderick 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2748
  • Joined: 15-April 12
  • LocationNew England, NSW, Australia

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:53 AM

Quote

Why is it an abominable crime to blow up a school bus (Im not arguing that it isnt an abominable crime) but targeting a school with WP munitions isnt?


I doubt that the school bus may have been used as a cover for anything.
It takes real men to ambush a school bus and shoot children.

One side has sworn to wipe the other off the face of the earth but not having the ability or the intestinal fortitude to do so in open warfare has to resort to terrorism.

One wonders why Bedouins join the Israeli army?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
0

#71 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:16 AM

View PostRoderick, on 21 November 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

I doubt that the school bus may have been used as a cover for anything.
It takes real men to ambush a school bus and shoot children.

As opposed to the real men it takes to use a child as a shield.

Why do you use one standard for the actions of the Palestinian resistance fighters, and another standard for the IDF goons?

Quote

One side has sworn to wipe the other off the face of the earth but not having the ability or the intestinal fortitude to do so in open warfare has to resort to terrorism.
Citation needed, prefereably from within the last year or two. No point bringing up decades old statements.

Here, in a show of good faith, is one I dug up earlier.

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=292466

Quote

That’s what’s called “deterrence” – if you shoot at me, I’ll shoot at you. There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity. We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire.


You do know who Gilad Sharon is, dont you?

Just for an extra bit of mental rumination (and I know how you love to examine a viewpoint from all sides) take this quote and see if it applies to more than one side in the conflict.

Quote

Life under such a rain of death is no life at all, and we cannot allow ourselves to become resigned to it.
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#72 User is offline   Heretic 

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: 18-November 12
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:31 AM

Frogman, stacking left wing media propaganda on top of rhetoric on top of heresay does not add up to truth. Having been a soldier, we were astonished at how wrong the media gets the situation and how much they twist it to suit their own agenda. This is why you need to stand back and look at "who gains?"
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#73 User is offline   Roderick 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2748
  • Joined: 15-April 12
  • LocationNew England, NSW, Australia

Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:34 AM

I agree that the state of Israel should never have been set up as it was, but the Arabs having lost the resulting war should have made peace or continued fighting, terrorism is no solution.
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
0

#74 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

View PostHeretic, on 21 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Having been a soldier, we were astonished at how wrong the media gets the situation and how much they twist it to suit their own agenda.

This is a bad argument. Its called an appeal to authority. By establishing yourself as an authority figure (ie: you were in the army and you therefore know more about the situation than people who weren't) you are attempting to put forward assertions as fact, without needing to back them up.

As clearly outlined in the forum rules, this is a bullshit and can safely be ignored, because you havent cited or referenced any sort of supporting documentation. This appears to be a pattern of those in the armed forces, because I believe Roderick was also in the ADF.

It also doesnt really sit well with the fact that you were a soldier, and soldier are inherently biased. However, I do agree with you in that the media twists the situation to conform with their own agendas. I believe that my version of the media's agenda, and your version, are two very different things. For example, I laugh, and then die a little bit inside, when the media reports on the terror and panic inflicted apon the Israeli children by the thought of the rockets, and being forced to run to bomb shelters. Make no mistake, no child should have to do that, ever. Im just waiting to hear the equivalent reports from the Gazan perspective, where Gazan children dont have the option to run to bomb shelters, because Israel specifically forbids them from building any, and restricts the importation of cement, or other construction materials, for building anything. How about the reports where the Gazans live with the constant sound of drone aircraft hovering above them, knowing that at any minute, any one of them could be killed in an airstrike for reasons they are never told?

Maybe im just reading the wrong media. Can you point out where these overwhelmingly leftist media is reporting?

Quote

This is why you need to stand back and look at "who gains?"

Its plainly obvious to see who gains in this situation. Israel. The settlers are gaining land, water and gas rights. The government is gaining votes, and sweet sweet US military aid. What exactly are the Palestinians gaining out of this situation?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#75 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:47 AM

View PostRoderick, on 21 November 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I agree that the state of Israel should never have been set up as it was, but the Arabs having lost the resulting war should have made peace or continued fighting, terrorism is no solution.

So, might makes right huh?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#76 User is offline   Roderick 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2748
  • Joined: 15-April 12
  • LocationNew England, NSW, Australia

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:06 AM

View PostFrogman, on 21 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

So, might makes right huh?

It wasn't might that won the Israeli Arab wars but guts and determination, every time there has been a war the Arabs have been ineffectual and usually because of the troops being poorly led and not really interested.

Get over it, Israel is a fact of life, go and plant or hug a few trees, whatever takes your Greenie fancy; maybe boycott a local Jewish owned business or paint a few swastikas on their walls.
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
0

#77 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:19 AM

View PostRoderick, on 21 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

It wasn't might that won the Israeli Arab wars but guts and determination, every time there has been a war the Arabs have been ineffectual and usually because of the troops being poorly led and not really interested.
Citation needed.

Are you ever going to answer my questions or are you going to go all Neo from from the matrix and dodge the shit out of them?

Quote

Get over it, Israel is a fact of life,
Please point out where I argued differently. Please explain why you feel you can put forward assertions with no backup and just assume that everyone is going to believe you.

Quote

go and plant or hug a few trees, whatever takes your Greenie fancy; maybe boycott a local Jewish owned business
All legitimate actions that I can freely undertake in our glorious country.

Quote

or paint a few swastikas on their walls.

This is hate speech and should not be tolerated. I have never said that its the fault of the Jews. I have said that the state of Israel is responsible for some gross war crimes, but conflating the race of jews with the government is a rookie error, and you aren't a rookie are you? Thats one of the problems with this whole shitstorm. Whenever anyone criticises the actions of the state of Israel, they are accused of anti-Semitism, which simply isn't the case.
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#78 User is offline   Roderick 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2748
  • Joined: 15-April 12
  • LocationNew England, NSW, Australia

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

Why would you want to boycott a Jewish business if Jewishness is not linked to the State of Israel, which is a predominantly Jewish populated State?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
0

#79 User is offline   Frogman 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 683
  • Joined: 31-October 11
  • LocationPerth

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:27 AM

View PostRoderick, on 21 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Why would you want to boycott a Jewish business if Jewishness is not linked to the State of Israel, which is a predominantly Jewish populated State?

Why do you expect me to continually answer your questions, when you refuse to return the same courtesy?
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

0

#80 User is offline   Roderick 

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2748
  • Joined: 15-April 12
  • LocationNew England, NSW, Australia

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:34 AM

Quote

Its plainly obvious to see who gains in this situation. Israel. The settlers are gaining land, water and gas rights. The government is gaining votes, and sweet sweet US military aid. What exactly are the Palestinians gaining out of this situation?

Martyrdom and, for those so inclined, a chance at some heavenly virgins.
Register so you can post replies with ease and remove this message.
Already registered? Please login now to make this message go away.
Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter

Self-defence is not only a Right, it is an Obligation.
0

Share this topic:


  • 7 Pages +
  • « First
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • Last »


Fast Reply