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Slipper and Ashby saga

#21 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:59 AM

View PostBam, on 23 April 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Abbott is daring to suggest that Slipper should stand aside until civil proceedings against him are settled. This is unreasonable.

True that; one wonders why the civil matter at all - my guess would be is that there has been a complaint made to the relevant agency within the public service and it has been lacking substance, so no action taken, leaving the civil action to be the only recourse left to the complainant, at his own cost. This is the usual way these things play out.
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#22 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

Any interesting bit of background on the person accusing Peter Slipper of wrongdoing.
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#23 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:35 PM

View Postscotto, on 23 April 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Any interesting bit of background on the person accusing Peter Slipper of wrongdoing.


Mildly amusing to see you re-posting the same link I originally did when I mentioned endangered strawberries saying:

Quote

News Limited naturally enough give us some dirt on the enemy of strawberries and the government. Further reference elsewhere to a young politician who introduced Peter Slipper to his former adviser James Ashby


Keep it up son! Glad you found it interesting and worth a re-post.

And it certainly goes a long way to explaining why Ashby may not be credible in respect to his allegations. Not. :lol:
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#24 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:38 PM

View Posticey, on 23 April 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Mildly amusing to see you re-posting the same link I originally did when I mentioned endangered strawberries saying:

Keep it up son! Glad you found it interesting and worth a re-post.

And it certainly goes a long way to explaining why Ashby may not be credible in respect to his allegations. Not. :lol:

Thanks..... but it's a different article on a different website, regardless of the similarity some of the content - so you can keep your arrogant self-congratulation to a minimum.

I think if this guy has an actual criminal record for harassment and threatening behaviour himself, that this casts a deep shadow over his credibility.
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#25 User is offline   longweekend58 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:46 PM

View Postscotto, on 23 April 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Thanks..... but it's a different article on a different website, regardless of the similarity some of the content - so you can keep your arrogant self-congratulation to a minimum.

I think if this guy has an actual criminal record for harassment and threatening behaviour himself, that this casts a deep shadow over his credibility.


The cabcharge issue and other financial irregularities may end up as criminal matters and THEY are what are really at issue here.
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#26 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:55 PM

View Postlongweekend58, on 23 April 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

The cabcharge issue and other financial irregularities may end up as criminal matters and THEY are what are really at issue here.

I agree that the Cabcharge issues, being about misuse of public funds in his position as parliamentarian, are more relevant in terms of Slipper's position as speaker. I'm not sure that any of these are new - coverage seems to be a bit confused about this.

Icey however was posting about something else. It seems a bit of a pity that he appeared not to read the article he was posting about.

I read the court document which has been put up on the ABC website and although it seems to contain a lot of detail, it does not contain any reference to Ashby trying to address the issues through existing channels within parliament.

I think the harassment issue taken to civil court is a classic smear attempt, quite in keeping with past Liberal efforts such as Heffernan's attempt to use falisified Comcar logs to take down a senior judge.
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#27 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:20 PM

View Postscotto, on 23 April 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Thanks..... but it's a different article on a different website, regardless of the similarity some of the content - so you can keep your arrogant self-congratulation to a minimum.


Now I am totally 'barrassed, and twice in the one day. I could have sworn it was not a similar link, but the identical link (thought I'd looked at the tale end of the URL to be sure).

Anyway, we can all see that the complainant has a bit of form, but mostly from ten years ago. Slipper's defence will jump on that history like a ton of bricks, but being a civil case, "beyond reasonable doubt" is not the standard.

On the other (more likely crimminal) hand, the tangible cabcharge dockets should be fairly easily audited, as long as investigators don't seek advice from Fair Work Australia. For what it's worth, I heard from someone in the cab industry that handing over blank cabcharges as a "tip" is somewhat common practice, but if the charge written (on the "blank cheque") is over the top, then people get pulled into line.

Slipper of course has form of his own that should not be ignored.
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#28 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:30 PM

View Postscotto, on 23 April 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

I think the harassment issue taken to civil court is a classic smear attempt, quite in keeping with past Liberal efforts such as Heffernan's attempt to use falisified Comcar logs to take down a senior judge.


Granted, us guy's ought to be able to fend for ourselves unlike hapless harassed females who from time to time turn to authorities for assistance. And of course the fact he's gay changes nothing.

On account of Slipper's impeccable history, ther'd be little chance Ashby's telling the truth? It's just smear without substance?

Based on the outcome of the recent sexual harrassment claim against CBA staff, Ashby better be cashed up, or telling the truth! Or penniless.
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#29 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:59 PM

View Posticey, on 23 April 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Granted, us guy's ought to be able to fend for ourselves unlike hapless harassed females who from time to time turn to authorities for assistance. And of course the fact he's gay changes nothing.

On account of Slipper's impeccable history, ther'd be little chance Ashby's telling the truth? It's just smear without substance?

Based on the outcome of the recent sexual harrassment claim against CBA staff, Ashby better be cashed up, or telling the truth! Or penniless.

The first point is facile. No one has suggested that there should be no support; in fact I have mentioned more than once thath there are procedures available within the system - procedures that Ashby has not used to anyone's knowledge.

Not gay - bisexual. He's married. And in Australia, that means to a woman. Remember?

Gee, are you saying that Slipper is impeccable? No one else is. What track record does the accuser have? Lying or truth- teller?

Your post is instructive. If Ashby is lying, he might end up in the same place as Godwin Gresch. Other than that, it's hard to see that he could expect much compensation - he had a very brief period of employment and his court documents make no claim of injury. Also, conveniently, before going to work for Slipper he had resigned from the Liberal party 'because he had been warned that he might be thrown out of the Party' if he took the job. Or, to distance the party from the coming action.

All this is beside the point that the civil action is not a reason for him to have stepped aside. It's the Cabcharge stuff, remember?
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#30 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:06 PM

View Posticey, on 23 April 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:


Slipper of course has form of his own that should not be ignored.

Yes, this is well known. But I think it interesting that now, of all times, there is the decision made to 'out' Slipper regarding his bisexuality - after all that has supposedly gone before.
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#31 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:27 PM

View Postlongweekend58, on 23 April 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

The cabcharge issue and other financial irregularities may end up as criminal matters and THEY are what are really at issue here.

Yes. However, the civil proceedings are not. Abbott cannot understand why this is the case.
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#32 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:18 AM

View Postscotto, on 23 April 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Not gay - bisexual. He's married. And in Australia, that means to a woman. Remember? ......

....... Also, conveniently, before going to work for Slipper he had resigned from the Liberal party 'because he had been warned that he might be thrown out of the Party' if he took the job. Or, to distance the party from the coming action.


Maybe I should read the court documents you referred to earlier as at an ABC link (I think). Can you post that please?
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#33 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:26 AM

View Posticey, on 24 April 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

Maybe I should read the court documents you referred to earlier as at an ABC link (I think). Can you post that please?

It's here.
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#34 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:33 AM

View PostBam, on 22 April 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I'm wondering who this staffer is. Is the staffer a member of the Liberal party? What else do we know about him?

Could be shades of Godwin Gretch.


Bushfire Bill expands on this theory in a well written critique -



Quote

Utegate was a rolled-gold, 100%, stitch-up.

Utegate proved that conspiracies do happen. It is chapter and verse on how to run a phoney scam.

Let's look at the connections:

1. Same journalist.
2. Same newspapers (Murdoch).
3. Same response from the Opposition.

Where is James Ashby, the plaintiff in this mess? No one, but no one has printed anything from him on the allegations. He's gone to ground, it seems, hiding behind the media's reluctance to be seen as "blaming the victim". He doesn't want to comment, his lawyers tell us. He must be a sensitive soul. So hurt, so traumatized: a 33 year old gay man shocked by someone he alleges sent him a text message with "xxx" at the end of it.
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#35 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:40 AM

View PostBam, on 22 April 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I'm wondering who this staffer is. Is the staffer a member of the Liberal party? What else do we know about him?

Could be shades of Godwin Gretch.

He was a Liberal member who resigned from the party immediately prior to starting work for Slipper. By his own description he turned down the offer twice due to Slipper's reputation, then for some reason decided to take the job after all.

In his court documents are a full transcript of a supposed text exchange -actually, a number of them - between he and Slipper. They are not really a meeting of the minds, but to me they indicate someone [Ashby] who fully realised what was going on all the time.

It's interesting that Abbott has only stated that he had "no specfic knowledge" of the complaint - the kind of very deliberate wording often used by JWH when using a cutoff man to distance himself from some scandal.

Ashby himself has made himself scarce - at least one Liberal staffer [Tony Nutt] feels he has been verballed if not defamed by Ashby's allegations.
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#36 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:45 AM

Looks like I was not alone in speculation about a connection to the Utegate conspiracy.

From the article that HDMC linked:

Quote

Unfortunately for [the Opposition] the same organization, the same personnel as perpetrated Utegate are involved.

If this does turn out to be another conspiracy, it will end Abbott's credibility with the Australian public. The honeymoon would be over, Abbott will be forevermore dogged by this, and his leadership would become untenable. If it is another conspiracy.

As a nation we really have to ask if we really want to be led by a Liberal government that is so untrustworthy that it would perpetuate conspiracies to fake scandals.

At the moment, we should reserve judgement, but it is telling that Ashby has gone to ground, giving no interviews.
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#37 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:48 AM

View PostBam, on 24 April 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Looks like I was not alone in speculation about a connection to the Utegate conspiracy.

From the article that HDMC linked:

If this does turn out to be another conspiracy, it will end Abbott's credibility with the Australian public. The honeymoon would be over, Abbott will be forevermore dogged by this, and his leadership would become untenable. If it is another conspiracy.

As a nation we really have to ask if we really want to be led by a Liberal government that is so untrustworthy that it would perpetuate conspiracies to fake scandals.

At the moment, we should reserve judgement, but it is telling that Ashby has gone to ground, giving no interviews.


Bam, the Vex News article linked in BB's piece is worth reading too.
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#38 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:12 AM

View PostHDMC, on 24 April 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Bushfire Bill expands on this theory in a well written critique -







Quote

UPDATE

Questions need to be asked:

1. Who is paying Ashby's legal bills? Actions in the Federal Court do not come cheap.

2. Who paid for the "independent forensic Information
Technology assessment and report" on the text messages?

3. Is Ashby solvent in the case of failure of his application? Will he be able to pay costs if his case fails? Has he received guarantees of financial support? If so, by whom?

4. Where is the evidence Ashby took genuine steps to have the matter mediated before he went to the Federal Court? Indeed, we are told of a "Genuine Steps" statement. Where is it? Slipper says he is "surprised" by the action. How could Slipper be "surprised" if the applicant took "Genuine Steps" to resolve the matter?

5. Worth repeating: who is paying for this very expensive legal action in one of the highest courts of the land?
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#39 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:13 AM

View PostHDMC, on 24 April 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Bam, the Vex News article linked in BB's piece is worth reading too.

I read that article, and .... hi carumba! If the speculation there is close to the mark, Abbott's PM ambitions are going to explode in midair like the space shuttle.

Amazing that Ashby - who I agree with Vexnews seems to be a complete flake - has hired this very media-oriented and expensive law firm to represent him. [side issue - so has Kathy Jackson of the HSU; her act seems to be getting more tired by the day]
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#40 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 03:44 PM

View Postscotto, on 23 April 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Not gay - bisexual. He's married. And in Australia, that means to a woman. Remember?


Thanks for the ABC link which provided a further link to the "Notice Of Filing And Hearing " court document. Didn't see anything in either to suggest that Ashby is bisexual or married. Not that it matters other than to the substance of your little jibe. He openly admits that he's homosexual which probably reduces his claim.

For my money, it's a remarkably detailed account of alleged events and one that I'd have trouble concocting. Still, it can all be tested in court in the light of personal testimony, supporting documents, forensic evidence etc, but if I were a gambling man, my money would be big time with the applicant.

On the involvement or otherwise of Abbott-Abbott-Abbott, there was no talk of cabcharge fraud back in the days of the alleged video (2003), and the video was deemed "consensual". For me personally, I would hear alarm bells ringing loud and clear, but for more (lowercase) liberal types, it's probably all honkey dorey. Now by most accounts, Abbott is not a liberal, but to the liberal visitors here (especially NBN advocates!), any problems with a raunchy consensual video between the MP and a male staffer? Sackable offence?
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