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Real Conservationists

#21 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:12 AM

Posted Today, 08:39 AM
Roderick, on 10 July 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

"Do you read the stuff you post? Its got a solution right there. You have already said the solution.

[Quote]Mr McGlone said the introduction of Tasmanian devils to the island could mean this year's macropod cull would be the last.[unquote]

"The devils will do the culling. There may be some need for individualised localised culls near Darlington," he said.

Now, understandably, you cant just go throwing tassie devils everywhere and assume they will pick up the slack, but if you encourage the native predators, then they will do their job, and people wont be in danger of getting shot when walking in a national park."

The man said could [future indefinite] not would [future indicative]

The particular park will be closed for the cull so your last sentence is redundant and erronious.
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#22 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:04 PM

View PostRoderick, on 09 July 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Very many shooters do, especially those that hunt feral animal pests; they don't do it for the money as there is nothing in skins. Hunters do a lot for the environment.

Your whole argument on this topic is constructed on the assumption that removing feral predators would necessarily result in fewer native animals being killed. There is little if any evidence to support this proposition.

Cats, dogs and foxes are prolific breeders and typically would have far more offspring than can survive to adulthood. Offspring mortality is high. One of the causes of mortality is insufficient food supply. If one kills an adult animal, all one is doing is creating an opportunity that would otherwise not exist: a new food-rich territory suddenly becomes available.

Eradication programs on any substantial landmass is very unlikely to be effective at eliminating all individuals of any species that has become established. Only on small islands is there any realistic chance of eradicating all individuals of an introduced predator. To claim then that shooting these predators is really helping the environment is little more than wishful thinking.
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#23 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:21 PM

There is also the damage done by foxes to the flora of the country by their distribution of the seeds of edible though environmentally unfriendly plants.

There is also the good done for the farming community, around lambing time the less live predators the better.

Quote

Since they were introduced for recreational hunting in the mid-1800s, foxes have spread across most of Australia. They have played a major role in the decline of a number of species of native animals and they also prey on newborn lambs. Control of foxes relies heavily on conventional techniques such as shooting, poisoning and fencing. In the future, a combination of biological and conventional control methods may be able to reduce the damage foxes cause.


Government
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#24 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:55 AM

Concerns hunters will disperse feral animals

Quote

STEVE CANNANE, PRESENTER: One of Australia's leading conservation groups has questioned the effectiveness of allowing shooters into national parks in New South Wales. Now the invasive species council has been backed by a professional animal trapper of 40 years experience who claim hunters will make his job of controlling feral animals more difficult. Last month the NSW parliament gave recreational hunters access to 79 parks and nature reserves.
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#25 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:00 AM

View PostBam, on 11 July 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:



Thanks for posting that one. I saw that guy ("Boots") on Lateline last night and thought it would be interesting to hear Roderick's response to his persuasive argument. He didn't look like an inner city latte type!
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#26 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:48 AM

I'm completely with the Game Council, just ask farmers whose land adjoins National Parks and most will curse the park and its management for harbouring feral animals, especially those that attack livestock.

Quote


Farmers hope hunting plan will curb feral animal problem
Date June 2, 2012 Rachel Olding, Emma Oberg.

FARMERS crippled by the scourge of feral animals have thrown their support behind the state government's proposal to allow hunting in national parks......Farmers that adjoin public land fare the worst, said Gerry Leach, the chairman of the National Farmers Federation's sustainability committee. Feral animals use the protected public land as a haven for breeding and go onto neighbouring land to graze crops and maul animals.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz20HIoTEBz
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#27 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:45 PM

View PostRoderick, on 11 July 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

I'm completely with the Game Council, just ask farmers whose land adjoins National Parks and most will curse the park and its management for harbouring feral animals, especially those that attack livestock.

I think perhaps the farmers should be cursing the hunters that put feral animals deliberately into the parks.
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#28 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:05 PM

View Postscotto, on 11 July 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

I think perhaps the farmers should be cursing the hunters that put feral animals deliberately into the parks.

Got anything to back that up?
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#29 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostRoderick, on 11 July 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Got anything to back that up?

You've not seen the posts including articles where NAtional Parks state that in the past hunters have deliberately stocked parks with feral animals so they can hunt them?
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#30 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

View Postscotto, on 11 July 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

You've not seen the posts including articles where NAtional Parks state that in the past hunters have deliberately stocked parks with feral animals so they can hunt them?

I've seen the statements and I'll believe them when some evidence is brought forward to back up such statements.
From what I see of National Parks in NSW there would be no need for anyone to introduce animals to hunt, the totally ineffective measures of the NP&WS see to that.

Look up their record on culling horses from helicopters.
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#31 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:27 PM

View PostRoderick, on 11 July 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

I've seen the statements and I'll believe them when some evidence is brought forward to back up such statements.
From what I see of National Parks in NSW there would be no need for anyone to introduce animals to hunt, the totally ineffective measures of the NP&WS see to that.

Look up their record on culling horses from helicopters.

Okay.... if you don't want to beleive specific statements from certain bodies, it's not really a debate, is it?
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#32 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:01 PM

View Postscotto, on 12 July 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Okay.... if you don't want to beleive specific statements from certain bodies, it's not really a debate, is it?

I'd just like to see some evidence of the release of feral animals in National Parks. Something like a successful prosecution.

Bald un-referenced statements, like this one from Wires, provides no evidence whatsoever:

"The proposal to allow hunting in national parks for feral animal control just creates an incentive for hunters to release feral animals to improve hunting opportunities, as has occurred with feral deer and pigs in state forests and elsewhere. The provisions of the NSW government’s professional codes of practice and standard operating procedures for humane vertebrate pest control would be undermined in numerous ways by the passage of this legislation."
Barbed wires
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#33 User is offline   Frogman 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:18 PM

View PostRoderick, on 12 July 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

I'd just like to see some evidence of the release of feral animals in National Parks. Something like a successful prosecution.

Id like to see you rebut this PDF.

http://www.invasives...eralControl.pdf

So im gonna go over here, and wish in one hand, spit in the other and see what fills up first.

Im taking 2:1 odds that its the spit hand.

Ohhh it even has the evidence you asked for. This should be good.

Just as an aside, I know you have had come problems with this in the past, but thats an actual citation. You will note the footmarks referencing other material. Thats usually a givaway.
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#34 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

View PostFrogman, on 12 July 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Id like to see you rebut this PDF.

http://www.invasives...eralControl.pdf

So im gonna go over here, and wish in one hand, spit in the other and see what fills up first.

Im taking 2:1 odds that its the spit hand.

Ohhh it even has the evidence you asked for. This should be good.

Just as an aside, I know you have had come problems with this in the past, but thats an actual citation. You will note the footmarks referencing other material. Thats usually a givaway.


Just where in that document is there any proof that feral animals have been released in National Parks?
Citation?
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#35 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:45 PM

View PostRoderick, on 12 July 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

I'd just like to see some evidence of the release of feral animals in National Parks. Something like a successful prosecution.

Bald un-referenced statements, like this one from Wires, provides no evidence whatsoever:

Hang on - your arguments about this are all based on the unsupported assertion that casual, legal hunting provides significant control of feral animals. You haven't claimed to be doing anything like that example you provided from South Australia, nor have you claimed that this will be happening in NSW in the future.
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#36 User is offline   Frogman 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:47 PM

No. Im not doing your work for you. Its there in the PDF. Are the words too big for you to understand or something?
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#37 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:56 PM

View Postscotto, on 12 July 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

Hang on - your arguments about this are all based on the unsupported assertion that casual, legal hunting provides significant control of feral animals. You haven't claimed to be doing anything like that example you provided from South Australia, nor have you claimed that this will be happening in NSW in the future.

How about the station owned by the SSAA?
Where shooters are putting their time and money into a conservation effort.
The Game Council has evidence that it's accredited hunters are killing feral animals.
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#38 User is offline   Frogman 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:58 PM

View PostRoderick, on 12 July 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

How about the station owned by the SSAA?
Where shooters are putting their time and money into a conservation effort.
The Game Council has evidence that it's accredited hunters are killing feral animals.

Seriously, go and read the PDF. This argument is covered in there. As is the release of feral animals.

You arent going to are you?
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#39 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:59 PM

View PostFrogman, on 12 July 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

No. Im not doing your work for you. Its there in the PDF. Are the words too big for you to understand or something?

I read it and found no evidence whatsoever that hunters are releasing feral animals.
There was one reference to a YouTube video but who made the video?
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#40 User is offline   Frogman 

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 05:15 PM

View PostRoderick, on 12 July 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

I read it and found no evidence whatsoever that hunters are releasing feral animals.
There was one reference to a YouTube video but who made the video?

Posted Image

Quote

2. Hunters have a vested interest in maintaining or expanding feral animal populations

In allowing recreational hunting on public lands state governments may unwittingly encourage hunters to
move pests to build up prey numbers. This already goes on.

According to pig researcher Pavlov, writing in the Australian Museum’s Mammals of Australia, a rapid increase in
distribution in since the 1970s in NSW and Queensland has been due to “deliberate release of piglets and juveniles by unscrupulous hunters”.54

Posted Image
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