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How about those gun laws? The US has clearly got it right - not!

#21 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:30 PM

What he said.
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#22 User is offline   icey 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:44 PM

lazy
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#23 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:01 PM

View Posticey, on 24 July 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

lazy

Given you've not weighed till now: whatever.
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#24 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:54 PM

View Postscotto, on 24 July 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Given you've not weighed till now: whatever.


Lazy is right, particularly the almost meaningless sentence above.
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#25 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostRoderick, on 24 July 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Lazy is right, particularly the almost meaningless sentence above.

Lazy is not responding to comments and replies.
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#26 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:07 PM

View PostRoderick, on 24 July 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Lazy is right, particularly the almost meaningless sentence above.

Do you mean it's worse that repetitive gibberish, selective answers and non sequitors?
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#27 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:09 PM

View Posticey, on 24 July 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

lazy

Okay, how's this: hear, hear..... ?
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#28 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:37 PM

Wiki has a pretty fair list of mass murderers, and includes the methods.


Quote

The W-column gives a basic description of the weapons used in the murders

F – Firearms and other ranged weapons, especially rifles and handguns, but also bows and crossbows, grenade launchers, flamethrowers, or slingshotsM – Melee weapons, like knives, swords, spears, machetes, axes, clubs, rods, stones, or bare handsO – Any other weapons, such as bombs, hand grenades, Molotov cocktails, poison and poisonous gas, as well as vehicle and arson attacksA – indicates that an arson attack was the only other weapon usedV – indicates that a vehicle was the only other weapon usedE – indicates that explosives of any sort were the only other weapon usedP – indicates that an anaesthetising or deadly substance of any kind was the only other weapon used (includes poisonous gas)



Sorry 'bout the formatting.
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#29 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 05:11 PM

If the USA's gun laws are lax, what is the comparison?

To which other countries can we compare them to gauge their laxity?
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#30 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostRoderick, on 24 July 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

If the USA's gun laws are lax, what is the comparison?

To which other countries can we compare them to gauge their laxity?

Ours.
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#31 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:54 PM

View Postscotto, on 24 July 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

Ours.

That's only one country, to be fair we ought to spread the comparison.
We ought to look at geographically comparable countries, with similar land boarders and racial make up; things like that.
Let us look at our near neighbour, New Zealand, which is also an island, where the gun laws are lax compared to Australia.

Firearm homicides in NZ are 0.17/100,000
Firearm homicides in Australia are 0.44/100,000.

So, quite obviously, the tougher gun laws in Australia explain the murder rate that is more than double that of NZ.
Murder rates
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#32 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:22 PM

View Posticey, on 24 July 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

lazy

The quoted post describes itself quite effectively. :lol:
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#33 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:05 AM

View PostRoderick, on 24 July 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

If the USA's gun laws are lax, what is the comparison?

To which other countries can we compare them to gauge their laxity?


The contents from that link -




Contents
[hide]
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#34 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:15 AM

View PostRoderick, on 24 July 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

That's only one country, to be fair we ought to spread the comparison.
We ought to look at geographically comparable countries, with similar land boarders and racial make up; things like that.
Let us look at our near neighbour, New Zealand, which is also an island, where the gun laws are lax compared to Australia.

Firearm homicides in NZ are 0.17/100,000
Firearm homicides in Australia are 0.44/100,000.

So, quite obviously, the tougher gun laws in Australia explain the murder rate that is more than double that of NZ.
Murder rates

R, we've been through all this before from you. And despite there being yet another gross incident involving handguns in the US, you sing the same tune.

If you are saying that the rate of gun ownership in the US is not a contributing factor to happenings there..... say it. Trying to explain away gun ownership by saying that other countries have more murders is like saying medicine doesn't matter because other countries have more disease.
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#35 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:29 AM

View PostRoderick, on 23 July 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Not so, when guns have been used, in an environment where there is a chance of retaliation there are less deaths.

just by the way, that's total nonsense. Instead of one person blasting away in a dark, gas filled room full of people, you want ten or twenty people to be doing the same thing. That would sure help kept casualties down. It's a fantasy based on watching too many bad cop shows. From the US, no doubt, where there is a strong tendency to support the gun fantasy.

What's more, there is evidence to support this. The US is surely where there 'is a chance of retaliation' - what has this done to stop or curb incidents of this nature? Nothing. There is no evidence at all that this is the case. Instead, count to massacres and other gun-related deaths. Yet still there the NRA wankers are beating their meat about 'the right to bear arms' and similar rubbish.
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#36 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:47 AM

View Postscotto, on 25 July 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

R, we've been through all this before from you. And despite there being yet another gross incident involving handguns in the US, you sing the same tune.

If you are saying that the rate of gun ownership in the US is not a contributing factor to happenings there..... say it. Trying to explain away gun ownership by saying that other countries have more murders is like saying medicine doesn't matter because other countries have more disease.

You have been saying that the firearm murder rate in the US is because of the gun laws, and I've said that the firearm murder rate in Australia is more than double that of New Zealand.

If it holds true that the US rate is due to their laws then the same must apply in Australia.

Or are there other factors involved?
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#37 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:55 AM

View Postscotto, on 25 July 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

just by the way, that's total nonsense. Instead of one person blasting away in a dark, gas filled room full of people, you want ten or twenty people to be doing the same thing. That would sure help kept casualties down. It's a fantasy based on watching too many bad cop shows. From the US, no doubt, where there is a strong tendency to support the gun fantasy.

What's more, there is evidence to support this. The US is surely where there 'is a chance of retaliation' - what has this done to stop or curb incidents of this nature? Nothing. There is no evidence at all that this is the case. Instead, count to massacres and other gun-related deaths. Yet still there the NRA wankers are beating their meat about 'the right to bear arms' and similar rubbish.

When there is a chance of retaliation there are less deaths; there was little chance of retaliation in a theatre, in the flickering light and, this may come as a surprise, most Americans don't carry arms. Undoubtedly the applications for concealed carry licences/permits will now rise as a direct result of this incident.
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#38 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:02 AM

Double post due to the vagaries of Bigpond :blink:
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#39 User is offline   Roderick 

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:09 AM

View PostRoderick, on 25 July 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

You have been saying that the firearm murder rate in the US is because of the gun laws, and I've said that the firearm murder rate in Australia is more than double that of New Zealand.

If it holds true that the US rate is due to their laws then the same must apply in Australia.
Of course the gun ownership rate in America is a factor and it appears to be a positive factor when America is compared to countries with a vastly higher murder rate and stricter firearms controls.
Or are there other factors involved?

More Bigpond :(
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This post has been edited by Roderick: 25 July 2012 - 08:11 AM

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#40 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:28 AM

View PostRoderick, on 25 July 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

When there is a chance of retaliation there are less deaths; there was little chance of retaliation in a theatre, in the flickering light and, this may come as a surprise, most Americans don't carry arms. Undoubtedly the applications for concealed carry licences/permits will now rise as a direct result of this incident.

How many conditions do you want to put on this? At a high school. At a college campus. In a shopping mall. Everywhere else.

Furthermore, you say the people have the right to carry guns but apparently none of them do. It's ridiculous - you might as well say: take the guns off the people because no one carries guns anyway, and there is therefore no deterrent factor, which is your main argument. It seems that by your argument the only people carrying guns are the ones wanting to commit murders. Or suicide - but then - they would do that at home mostly, so that wouldn't count.
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