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$660million financial collapse

#21 User is offline   HDMC 

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:25 AM

View Posticey, on 30 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Yes, it was indeed a great result for the conservatives and rational government. With 49.6% of the primary vote, there was hardly a need for the AEC to trouble themselves with counting the 1.36% Family First preferences, let alone any others. :D



Under Qld's OPV system, I suspect that prefs played a very small role anyway, but the fact remains that most voters opted for someone other than Can-do.
And believe me, their numbers have grown.


But as long as you're happy...
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#22 User is offline   southern man 

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:51 PM

Bam - As posted previously a rise in unemployment of under-utilised Public Servants in Qld was no coincidence.
It needed to happen and did happen once the appalling state of Qld's finances were made apparent.
A simple fact that it appears is taking longer than normal to sink in.
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#23 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:54 PM

View Postsouthern man, on 12 November 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Bam - As posted previously a rise in unemployment of under-utilised Public Servants in Qld was no coincidence.
It needed to happen and did happen once the appalling state of Qld's finances were made apparent.
A simple fact that it appears is taking longer than normal to sink in.

Because you offer no proof of what you say, it is impossible to accept what you say just because you said so. Especially when you do nothing but perpetuate right-wing mythology.

Under-utilised? Not proven. Just more opinionated right-wing views without any facts to back them up, based on the myth that the public service always has thousands of people doing nothing away from the public eye. It's a fairy-tale, the sort of viewpoint to make the unsympathetic beancounters feel better and take their mind off the real facts - that every one of these people getting the pink slip are real people who now have to go home to their families and tell them the grim news.

I doubt all the nurses who have been laid off after Newman gutted the health service in Queensland lately were "under-utilised".

Needed to happen? When plenty of other cuts could have been made?

Did it also need to happen that over a hundred million dollars of Queensland taxpayers' money needed to be spent on the luxury of an unnecessary horse racing centre? Did it also need to happen that all of Newman's LNP mates that he's stacking the public service with had to receive pay rises of around 20% for doing the same job as their predecessors? If money was so scarce, why not institute a salary freeze at the top?

Money's not as tight in Queensland as the mendacious Newman would have you believe, if the funds were available for these. Considering the large amount of mendacity and broken promises that's flowing out of the Newman Government's cloaca, how can we even trust them to be honest about the size of the debt? Especially since it took about 20 working days for a conservative has-been to go through all the books with his rubber stamp. More likely, Costello was just rocking in his hammock for four weeks thinking up lines for his speech before rubber-stamping the LNP's propaganda.
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#24 User is offline   southern man 

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:32 PM

It always amuses me that when the Right on this Forum expresses a view it is always regarded as "Right Wing Mythology" or another favourite is "Sprouting the Party Line" whereas Left Wing posts are always considered to be somehow more Original and Authentic (as if the thought suddenly popped into their head) when they are "Sprouting the same Left Wing Party lines and Mythology" that the majority of posters on this forum try to shove down our throats on a regular basis.
The same Left Wing Mythology that has never worked and never will work.

Bam: In your previous post you make many claims with no Citations - Pay Rises of 20% to "Newman's Mates" - really? Trot out a citation old boy.
"Money is not tight in Qld"?? Citation please.
"How many nurses where laid off in Qld? How many Public Servants? Get busy with those Citations Bam.
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#25 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:39 PM

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It always amuses me that when the Right on this Forum expresses a view it is always regarded as "Right Wing Mythology" or another favourite is "Sprouting the Party Line" whereas Left Wing posts with citations are always considered to be somehow more Original and Authentic

I know rite.

I too find it amusing that one side of politics appears to be evidenced based, and the other relies on histrionics and lies. If only we could in some way prove what what said. If only there was some way to safely identify posts that could safely be ignored because of a lack of evidence. Sigh. I suppose one day we will find such a method.

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The same Left Wing Mythology that has never worked and never will work.
Citation needed.

Seeing as you appear to have an allergic reaction to those words, I will phrase it differently.

Can you define the left with mythology that hasnt worked and never will?

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Bam: In your previous post you make many claims with no Citations - Pay Rises of 20% to "Newman's Mates" - really? Trot out a citation old boy.
"Money is not tight in Qld"?? Citation please.
"How many nurses where laid off in Qld? How many Public Servants? Get busy with those Citations Bam.

Because you asked Bam, I feel no need to provide cites, however I will remember your eagerness to request cites, and will hope that when I show such eagerness myself, you will be happy to provide the required reading.
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#26 User is offline   southern man 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:26 AM

Frogman - You could not provide the cites on Bam's behalf for the simple fact that you and Bam can't find the evidence.
Just a re-run of Left Wing Bias, Part Lines and general "Mythology".

On the other hand show me a Western Government that has prospered under a left wing Government??
I can show you plenty that have not ie like most of Europe currently. Your answer to this will be fascinating.

People who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones. Didn't your mother ever tell you that?
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#27 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:33 AM

View Postsouthern man, on 15 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Frogman - You could not provide the cites on Bam's behalf for the simple fact that you and Bam can't find the evidence.
Just a re-run of Left Wing Bias, Part Lines and general "Mythology".

On the other hand show me a Western Government that has prospered under a left wing Government??
I can show you plenty that have not ie like most of Europe currently. Your answer to this will be fascinating.

People who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones. Didn't your mother ever tell you that?

Australia under the Hawke/Keating governments. USA under Clinton. Although these really don't qualify as 'left wing.'
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#28 User is offline   southern man 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:37 PM

One side of politics seems more evidence based says Frogman!!
Hello!!! Anybody there to answer the Bam allegations re the Newman Government?

Scotto - Citation needed re your assertion that Australia "prospered under a left wing government" under Keating.

The electorate was waiting with baseball bats as I recall it. The same bats they have polished up for next year's election.
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#29 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:33 AM

I have told you before but this time I will use smaller words.

You not give cites makes me not give cites.

Do you understand that?
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#30 User is offline   southern man 

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

More pointedly Frogman is that you CANT give citations about a Western Government that prospered under a Left Wing Government.

Big difference between CAN'T and WON'T Not Frogman.
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#31 User is offline   NotFrogman 

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

Why does it have to be a western government?
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#32 User is offline   southern man 

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:58 PM

Because I suggested it, and we live in a Western Democracy which makes the discussion more relevant doesn't it.

Bit harder to find the citations with Western Governments isn't it Not Frogman?
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#33 User is offline   smokey 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:01 AM

View Posticey, on 30 October 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Please explain how booting Bligh was a vote for "ending democracy".

Please explain to me how QLD is a democracy?
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#34 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

View Postsouthern man, on 14 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

It always amuses me that when the Right on this Forum expresses a view it is always regarded as "Right Wing Mythology" or another favourite is "Sprouting the Party Line" whereas Left Wing posts are always considered to be somehow more Original and Authentic (as if the thought suddenly popped into their head) when they are "Sprouting the same Left Wing Party lines and Mythology" that the majority of posters on this forum try to shove down our throats on a regular basis.

It would be good that discussion on any point of contention is more informed than opinionated posts lacking any proof that is passed off as being the equal of material that is posted with third-party evidence to support the point. The preponderance of evidence-backed posts do tend to be from left-wing posters here. There's a couple of right-leaning posters who do take the trouble to argue their point with evidence to back it up. I like it when anyone takes the trouble to include evidence because it is more convincing when evidence is provided to support a point of view.

I won't speak for others, but I do consider good-quality evidence and will sometimes even change my mind on an issue if good evidence to the contrary is provided. Sadly, so many right-wing posters do themselves a disservice by not providing their points with the solid evidence that supports them. The left-wing posters usually provide more supporting evidence.

It's hard to be convinced by a post that, in response to a point where supporting evidence is provided, only says - to paraphrase - "You're wrong" without showing why. It does not matter what the discussion is or which side of a debate it is, the side with the preponderance of reliable supporting evidence will usually prevail.

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The same Left Wing Mythology that has never worked and never will work.

This is an opinion. No need for a citation here. However, it's not going to convince anyone because it is just casually tossed into the discussion without any amplification of the point.

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Bam: In your previous post you make many claims with no Citations - Pay Rises of 20% to "Newman's Mates" - really? Trot out a citation old boy.

I already did, weeks ago, in the Newman thread. This is why I discuss it freely - I've already proven the point. Perhaps you didn't read it or don't remember? Selective memory perhaps?

Michael Caltabiano, former LNP hack from the Brisbane City Council, earns $479,000 p.a. while his predecessor earned $409,000. 17% pay rise. That's close enough to qualify as "around 20%" IMO.
Here is the post with citations.

Does that mean you're going to provide citations for everything you assert from now on?

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"Money is not tight in Qld"?? Citation please.

You are misquoting me. Since I did not say those exact words, I do not feel the need to provide a citation here. However, if you're interested in how the Newman Government is wasting money, see the Newman thread.

Quote

"How many nurses where laid off in Qld? How many Public Servants? Get busy with those Citations Bam.

Given the distinct lack of citations in your posts, I do not really feel inclined to provide citations because you demand them after you have declined to provide them yourself. I don't want to be a victim of hypocrisy. Perhaps you should, as you said, "Get busy with those Citations" yourself? We did ask first, only to find that you don't play fair.

Nevertheless, if you're interested (you're probably not), the Queensland Nurses Union has details on the job losses and bed closures that you're not likely to read about in the Murdoch press.
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This post has been edited by Bam: 18 November 2012 - 11:05 PM
Reason for edit: reparagraph

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#35 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:26 PM

View Postsouthern man, on 16 November 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Because I suggested it, and we live in a Western Democracy which makes the discussion more relevant doesn't it.

Bit harder to find the citations with Western Governments isn't it Not Frogman?

Tell me how the right-wing austerity measure are going in Europe.

President Clinton in the USA was the last US President to deliver surplus budgets. Reagan, Bush Senior and Bush Junior could not do that.

We don't even need to look overseas for a highly successful left-wing government. The reforms of the Hawke-Keating Government - particularly during the Hawke years - made the Australian economy much stronger than the triple failure (double-digit inflation, double-digit interest rates and double-digit unemployment) that John Winston Howard - the most incompetent Treasurer this country has ever had - left behind in 1983. That successful left-wing government did the following, among other achievements:
  • Floated the dollar
  • Brought the top marginal tax rate to below 50% and kept it there permanently for the first time since the Second World War
  • Brought inflation under control
  • Deregulated the banking industry
  • Introduced compulsory superannuation
  • Dismantled tariffs
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This post has been edited by Bam: 18 November 2012 - 11:28 PM
Reason for edit: clarify

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#36 User is offline   southern man 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

Bam - When it comes to talking about the mess that Left Wing Governments have left behind in Europe, this subject has already been discussed on this forum.
No need to ask "how right-wing austerity measures are going in Europe" (What audacity!) - more the question should be how did they get into that mess in the first place, Bam?
It's the same old cycle around the world - the Left pisses money up against the wall, runs huge deficits, bloats the Public Service, hands out money to every bludger that asks for it, gets thrown out of office, and a right wing government is elected to clean up the mess. Sound familiar?
Now a gentle reminder - What type of Government has been predominantly in power over the past 2 decades in Portugal? Italy? Greece? and Spain?
Throw in France and the UK for good measure.
No need to try and trash Howard's legacy, Bam. Australia had the longest period of sustained prosperity under his leadership since the War - 10 or was it 11 surpluses?
Compared to Swan and Gillard?? Not in the same league.
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#37 User is offline   Frogman 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

Uncited and unreferenced ideological drivel. According to the forum rules, everyone is free to ignore that post for the bollocks that it is.
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#38 User is offline   scotto 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:08 PM

View Postsouthern man, on 15 November 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:


Scotto - Citation needed re your assertion that Australia "prospered under a left wing government" under Keating.



I believe this has been answered, notwithstanding the complete absence of evidence posted to support any of your assertions.
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#39 User is offline   Bam 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

View Postsouthern man, on 19 November 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Bam - When it comes to talking about the mess that Left Wing Governments have left behind in Europe, this subject has already been discussed on this forum.

Link needed. No wait, never mind, much of the so-called "evidence" to support that proposition in the thread is probably nothing more than opinionated speculation with minimal evidence.

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No need to ask "how right-wing austerity measures are going in Europe" (What audacity!)

Why won't you answer the question? Let me answer that: because austerity in bad times does not work. What ailing economies need is stimulation, not suffocation.

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- more the question should be how did they get into that mess in the first place, Bam?

Excessively lax financial regulation in some jurisdictions, particularly the USA.

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It's the same old cycle around the world - the Left pisses money up against the wall, runs huge deficits, bloats the Public Service, hands out money to every bludger that asks for it, gets thrown out of office, and a right wing government is elected to clean up the mess. Sound familiar?

You're just parroting the same tired lines without any consideration for those inconvenient things called "facts".

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Now a gentle reminder - What type of Government has been predominantly in power over the past 2 decades in Portugal? Italy? Greece? and Spain?
Throw in France and the UK for good measure.

I see you like picking cherries. Good news, It's cherry season soon.

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No need to try and trash Howard's legacy, Bam. Australia had the longest period of sustained prosperity under his leadership since the War - 10 or was it 11 surpluses?
Compared to Swan and Gillard?? Not in the same league.

No, not in the same league because Howard was a woefully incompetent Treasurer. Are you seriously that delusional that you can't see the obvious incompetence of his economic management during his time as Treasurer? Double-digit inflation? Double-digit unemployment? Double-digit interest rates? Credit squeeze caused by over-regulated banks not lending money? Howard causing much of this himself because the Treasurer and not the RBA had the responsibility for setting interest rates? Bottom of the harbour tax evasion?
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#40 User is offline   southern man 

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

I don't mind cherries myself, Bam

The fact that Left Wing governments have been predominantly in power over the past 2 decades in Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain, UK, and France is not
ideological drivel, Frogman and Bam - This is a fact - Read It and Weep - Also have fun trying to refute it.
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